Travel? Loss of Possession?

[CDurham]

A1 is dribbling and jumps into the air. Somehow the ball slips from his grasp above his head and hangs in the air for a split second. While the ball is separated, his hands/arms are moving "frantically" in order to re-grab the ball. He then grabs the ball and lands.

Loss of possession therefore legal?

Or Travel?

Thanks!

[Twinfan]

It would be a travel as you described it.

If it had been tapped out of his hands by an opposing player, or touched by someone else while in the air, then no violation. If he is under the basket and you have some doubt about whether it was a shot attempt, then consider it a shot - and no violation.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by Twinfan

It would be a travel as you described it.

If it had been tapped out of his hands by an opposing player, or touched by someone else while in the air, then no violation. If he is under the basket and you have some doubt about whether it was a shot attempt, then consider it a shot - and no violation.

What is the rule reference for losing control and having to be by an opponent? Is it not possible to fumble in the air? Just wondering.

4-21: Fumble is accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a players grasp.

Thanks

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Twinfan

It would be a travel as you described it.

If it had been tapped out of his hands by an opposing player, or touched by someone else while in the air, then no violation. If he is under the basket and you have some doubt about whether it was a shot attempt, then consider it a shot - and no violation.

A player can gather the ball and jump off of one foot and land on both feet and not be a travel. Why does a moementary loss of the ball matter? The dribble ended when the player gathered the ball. The temporary loss of possession adds nothing to this as far as I can see. I need a rule reference to change my mind.

[Adam]

If you think it was a fumble, no violation.
If you think it was a try for goal, no violation.
If you think he purposefully let it go and grabbed it, travel.

Note, a defensive touch is not required for the first two.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If you think it was a fumble, no violation.
If you think it was a try for goal, no violation.
If you think he purposefully let it go and grabbed it, travel.

Okay. Thanks Snaqs. Was making sure I was thinking correctly.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Okay. Thanks Snaqs. Was making sure I was thinking correctly.

No problem. Also note, if the player had used his dribble, he cannot dribble again unless the defense another player touched the ball while it was loose or caused it to come loose.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If you think it was a fumble, no violation.
If you think it was a try for goal, no violation.
If you think he purposefully let it go and grabbed it, travel.

Note, a defensive touch is not required for the first two.

For it to be travel, he would have to drop the ball to the floor and then be the first to touch it, wouldn't he?

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by rwest

For it to be travel, he would have to drop the ball to the floor and then be the first to touch it, wouldn't he?

IMO the last has to do with intentionally. A legal fumble has to be unintentionally dropping the ball or it slipping for grasp. So therefore A1 never lost control legally of the ball resulting in a travel if he came back down to the floor.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by rwest

For it to be travel, he would have to drop the ball to the floor and then be the first to touch it, wouldn't he?

If he is fumbling the ball, what diff does it make. He is allowed to go and retrieve the ball. Like Snags said, if he regains control of the ball and starts another dribble then we don't have a travel, we got an illegal dribble

[rwest]

Originally Posted by CDurham

IMO the last has to do with intentionally. A legal fumble has to be unintentionally dropping the ball or it slipping for grasp. So therefore A1 never lost control legally of the ball resulting in a travel if he came back down to the floor.

There is a case play that is partially on point. I don't have my book to give you the number, but it goes something like this. A1 goes up to shoot and seeing that his shot will be blocked drops the ball. The ball hits the floor. The ruling is a travel if he is the first to touch the ball. I see the OP as being similar. The OP doesn't say the ball touched the floor and that he was the first to touch it. If so, then I would agree with the travel call. But if he lost possession intentionally and regained possession in the air and the ball didn't touch the floor, I've got nothing.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is a case play that is partially on point. I don't have my book to give you the number, but it goes something like this. A1 goes up to shoot and seeing that his shot will be blocked drops the ball. The ball hits the floor. The ruling is a travel if he is the first to touch the ball. I see the OP as being similar. The OP doesn't say the ball touched the floor and that he was the first to touch it. If so, then I would agree with the travel call. But if he lost possession intentionally and regained possession in the air and the ball didn't touch the floor, I've got nothing.

You mean unintentionally, like in fumble.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is a case play that is partially on point. I don't have my book to give you the number, but it goes something like this. A1 goes up to shoot and seeing that his shot will be blocked drops the ball. The ball hits the floor. The ruling is a travel if he is the first to touch the ball. I see the OP as being similar. The OP doesn't say the ball touched the floor and that he was the first to touch it. If so, then I would agree with the travel call. But if he lost possession intentionally and regained possession in the air and the ball didn't touch the floor, I've got nothing.

They're travels for different reasons. In the case play, it's a travel for lifting the pivot foot before starting a dribble.

In the OP (assuming purposeful release) it's a travel for jumping and returning to the floor with the ball.

It could have been considered an illegal dribble under the old case play, but the case play for the player throwing the ball in the air and moving before catching it (no bounce) declares it a travel now.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is a case play that is partially on point. I don't have my book to give you the number, but it goes something like this. A1 goes up to shoot and seeing that his shot will be blocked drops the ball. The ball hits the floor. The ruling is a travel if he is the first to touch the ball. I see the OP as being similar. The OP doesn't say the ball touched the floor and that he was the first to touch it. If so, then I would agree with the travel call. But if he lost possession intentionally and regained possession in the air and the ball didn't touch the floor, I've got nothing.

The case play is 4.44.3 A. This has to do with dropping the ball to the floor. In this case the ball was dropped to the floor while a player was in the air and they were the first to touch it after it hit the floor which constituted a dribble. And you cant have a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

My play: the player never dropped the ball to the floor. He simply came back down with the ball after the fumble while he was mid air.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

You mean unintentionally, like in fumble.

There is no rule support that I know of that says a player can't INTENTIONALLY lose control of the ball while in the air. The case play that I sited above says its only a violation if the ball touches the floor and the player is the first too touch it. Again the case play isn't a 100% similar to the OP but it is close enough in my mind to give us some guidance. If the player intentionally loses control but regains it before he and the ball touches the floor I still have nothing.