Travel? Loss of Possession?

[johnsonboys03]

I'm not understanding some of the thought proccess. He didn't just "jump" he started the habitual motion that preceeds a release of the ball trying to score a goal...that is totally different by rule than a jump. The only legal things he can do from there before he touches the ground is release the ball on a pass or try for a goal. I've played this game for a long time and coached for a long time...only officiated for a short time but it's always been a travell. And when studying the rule it shows travell. Not saying I'm right I just haven't seen anything rule quote wise that is changing my mind

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by CDurham

A1 is dribbling and jumps into the air. Somehow the ball slips from his grasp above his head and hangs in the air for a split second. While the ball is separated, his hands/arms are moving "frantically" in order to re-grab the ball. He then grabs the ball and lands.

Loss of possession therefore legal?

Or Travel?

Thanks!

Can you describe where his feet were when the last dribble occurred or the last touch occurred? Based on your description, the player was dribbling the ball and jumped into the air. You did not indicate that the player picked up his dribble -- you simply indicated that the ball slipped from his grasp (on the dribble or did he attempt to pick up the dribble with both hands). You then indicated that the ball ended up over his head (is this a case of a high dribble?). Doing all of this while in the air. Where his feet were when the last touch was made is relevant. If he does all of this while his feet are in the air, I cannot see how the play can be ruled a travel -- assuming the feet were off the ground when the last dribble occurred.

By definition, per 4-44, "traveling is moving the foot or feet in any direction in excess of the prescribed limits while HOLDING the ball." I find it hard to see a travel in this play unless the feet are doing more than has been described.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Can you describe where his feet were when the last dribble occurred or the last touch occurred? Based on your description, the player was dribbling the ball and jumped into the air. You did not indicate that the player picked up his dribble -- you simply indicated that the ball slipped from his grasp (on the dribble or did he attempt to pick up the dribble with both hands). You then indicated that the ball ended up over his head (is this a case of a high dribble?). Doing all of this while in the air. Where his feet were when the last touch was made is relevant. If he does all of this while his feet are in the air, I cannot see how the play can be ruled a travel -- assuming the feet were off the ground when the last dribble occurred.

By definition, per 4-44, "traveling is moving the foot or feet in any direction in excess of the prescribed limits while HOLDING the ball." I find it hard to see a travel in this play unless the feet are doing more than has been described.

Okay lets see if I can be clearer. He was dribbling. Stopped. Jumped. And somehow the ball was fumbled in the judgement of the officials (dont disagree they had a great look at it) and the ball continued to go upward in direction. It wasnt a shot. The player then regained control of the ball. And landed. Hope this helped.

[Twinfan]

Back to a travel call then. He left the floor in control of the ball. His legal options while in the air are pass or shoot. He came back down in control of the ball, he had not passed or shot - travel is the violation.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by Twinfan

Back to a travel call then. He left the floor in control of the ball. His legal options while in the air are pass or shoot. He came back down in control of the ball, he had not passed or shot - travel is the violation.

What about the fumble? Which is accidental loss of player control. If he loses player control on his fumble how can you have a travel when he re-gains the ball and lands?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Twinfan

Back to a travel call then. He left the floor in control of the ball. His legal options while in the air are pass or shoot. He came back down in control of the ball, he had not passed or shot - travel is the violation.

Wrong, the fumble changes everything.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wrong, the fumble changes everything.

Snaq, not making fun or being disrespectful, but is it that difficult to understand?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wrong, the fumble changes everything.

This is the only written NFHS ruling that I've ever seen on this action.

2000-2001 BASKETBALL INTERPRETATIONS
SUPPLEMENT #1 (11/9/00)
SITUATION 1: A1 is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, A1 fumbles the ball (while still in the air) and drops it. A1 then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. RULING: Traveling violation. While airborne the bail must be released for a try or pass. (4—43-3a; 94)

Just saying...

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Twinfan

Back to a travel call then. He left the floor in control of the ball. His legal options while in the air are pass or shoot. He came back down in control of the ball, he had not passed or shot - travel is the violation.

Why are you all assuming that he was jumping for a try or a pass? This could have been a jump stop. If you judge that he was passing or it was a try then I agree, travel. However, a player can leap off of one foot and land simultaneously on both feet and not be called for a travel. In this case I know of no rule or case book play that says a momentary loss of control constitutes a travel.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

Why are you all assuming that he was jumping for a try or a pass? This could have been a jump stop. If you judge that he was passing or it was a try then I agree, travel. However, a player can leap off of one foot and land simultaneously on both feet and not be called for a travel. In this case I know of no rule or case book play that says a momentary loss of control constitutes a travel.

If you've been assuming all along it's a jump stop, that's different. Based on the OP's assumption that if it wasn't a fumble, it was a travel, I'm not considering a jump stop on this play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

Why are you all assuming that he was jumping for a try or a pass? This could have been a jump stop. If you judge that he was passing or it was a try then I agree, travel. However, a player can leap off of one foot and land simultaneously on both feet and not be called for a travel. In this case I know of no rule or case book play that says a momentary loss of control constitutes a travel.

Because of this, for one thing.

Originally Posted by CDurham

Okay lets see if I can be clearer. He was dribbling. Stopped. Jumped. And somehow the ball was fumbled in the judgement of the officials (dont disagree they had a great look at it) and the ball continued to go upward in direction. It wasnt a shot. The player then regained control of the ball. And landed. Hope this helped.

The player stopped before he jumped.

If it's a jump stop, you're right. No travel regardless of the momentary release of the ball; which I've already stated.

[johnsonboys03]

we are assuming it is for a shot because that is what the original post said. Also the book says that a shot starts by the habitual motion that preceeds a try for a goal....