Lazy Partner Advice

[johnsonboys03]

That would be a tough situation. You want to always be a united group and support your partner no matter what, but you want to follow the rules and he doesn't. I think I would let it go but voice your oppinion at half time when you two are alone. Allowing the rules to not be followed allows confusion to kreep in when teams play when other official will be enforcing the rules.

Not to mention I was a Junior High coach before I was an official and I despised the comment of "coach this is just a junior high game"! I coached just as hard and the players played just as hard as a varsity team....They deserve our best as officials as well. That's what they pay us to do!

I know that probably doesn't help. Tough situation!

[JRutledge]

Well I happen to agree with the veteran that these rules should not apply to non-varsity contests. That is the way it is in my area because many of the uniforms are warm-ups or hand-me-downs. That being said who was the Referee? That should ultimately be the Referee's decision. If he was the Referee than you are off the hook. If you are the Referee, then you make the decision that is based on the game. Then if you are asked about why the rule was not enforced, then you can say "He was the Referee."

Peace

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I happen to agree with the veteran that these rules should not apply to non-varsity contests. That is the way it is in my area because many of the uniforms are warm-ups or hand-me-downs. That being said who was the Referee? That should ultimately be the Referee's decision. If he was the Referee than you are off the hook. If you are the Referee, then you make the decision that is based on the game. Then if you are asked about why the rule was not enforced, then you can say "He was the Referee."

Peace

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

[amusedofficial]

Schools are struggling to field teams and to fund programs, and kids are more and more being forced to pay to play in high school, even in poorer school districts.

It is more important that they be able to get team on the court than to start slapping T's because somebody has an old uniform that doesn't meet the latest NFHS fashion whim.

And no, giving some subvarsity latitute on the dress code doesn't mean ignoring playing rules. Any suggestion that giving latitude on uniform issues to subvarsity teams is the same as ignoring playing rules is patently absurd.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in. To penalize that player by following the 'letter of law' just isn't common sense. If he makes an effort to comply that should be sufficient. It's called game management. Yes, you're aware of the rule, and you're not ignoring it because of laziness, again just applying common sense and a sense of fair play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in. To penalize that player by following the 'letter of law' just isn't common sense. If he makes an effort to comply that should be sufficient. It's called game management. Yes, you're aware of the rule, and you're not ignoring it because of laziness, again just applying common sense and a sense of fair play.

I'm with Bob and JR on this. 3-4 is for varsity; 3-5 is for everyone.

The OP said specifically his association has been told to enforce everything at all levels. So why are people on this board giving him advice to ignore his association?

[fullor30]

Snaqs.

I agree with JR on 3-5, there is no excuse. Associations, at least in the Chicago area (three that I'm a member of), don't really dictate to it's members possibly like others around the country and certainly not at middle school level.

I'm not condoning ignoring his association, I was addressing lazy partner question which to me was main point of thread and my response is how I'd address it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Snaqs.

I agree with JR on 3-5, there is no excuse. Associations, at least in the Chicago area (three that I'm a member of), don't really dictate to it's members possibly like others around the country and certainly not at middle school level.

I'm not condoning ignoring his association, I was addressing lazy partner question which to me was main point of thread and my response is how I'd address it.

Good point; I was just surprised at those who said they agreed with the veteran that it was ok to ignore what the association had said to enforced. I should have included Rut's post in my response instead of yours. You just happened to be last at the moment. Sorry.

[Zoochy]

I echo the words of bob and JR. I do not like being the 'Fashion Police', but I do it. It does not make us, the officials, look good when we have to enforce these rules. And it does not make us look good when we do not enforce these rules.
During warm ups I look for ear rings, bobby pins, head/wrist band violations. And if they are not wearing warmup uniforms, then I look for illegal numbers, and illegal undergarments.
Many years ago I noticed that a player had a metal brace on his finger. I informed the player and coach about this situation and the options. He blasted me during this conversation. And made it a point that the player has worn it all season and I was the 1st to bring it to his attention. I watched one of his games later in the season. Guess what? He had the brace on the finger. The player was the Assistant Principal's son.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in.

Fullor - I remember a JVB game I had a few yrs ago where they used the V hand me downs. The uniform tops were so big on some of the younger kids the arm holes were nearly tucked into the shorts and we could barely see some of the numbers. And, if they didn't have the waste-tie (dingle-dangle for you military) or it didn't work or was missing on the shorts we had the pants problems you allude to. Was really bothersome on many and really took away from their play.

[26 Year Gap]

I think one reason many boards want these things enforced is the consistency. How many of us have had to deal with "they didn't have to do it in the first game"? My last game I noticed a couple of players warming up in the prelim with ear rings or taped over ear rings. I let the JV officials know. They did NOTHING. Hand me down uniforms is one thing. Black t-shirts under white uniforms, jewelry, etc is another.

FWIW, if I see a player with a bracelet, jewelry, or hair pins, I let the player know. When I go get that coach for the pre-game meeting, I advise about illegal t-shirts and needing to remove them out of the visual confines for the team I am responsible for watching. The other guy is responsible for his team.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

You obviously did not read or understand what I said. Where I am from this is a Referee thing. If the Referee makes the decision about uniforms they take the heat if they do not follow the rules. Also many of these rules in my state have been considered minor and not to go around giving Ts for uniform infractions. We were told those were for varsity contests only. And I can tell you I bet my state is going much crazier over those infractions than any other state.

And you enforce the rules the way you have been instructed. Not by what we say here. And that includes sub-varsity games. Middle school does not even come into this conversation where I live as there are no widely accepted body that dictates what we do at that level (at least in my part of the state).

Peace

[j51969]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

Mr. Rutledge,

I do agree.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I happen to agree with the veteran that these rules should not apply to non-varsity contests. That is the way it is in my area because many of the uniforms are warm-ups or hand-me-downs. That being said who was the Referee? That should ultimately be the Referee's decision. If he was the Referee than you are off the hook. If you are the Referee, then you make the decision that is based on the game. Then if you are asked about why the rule was not enforced, then you can say "He was the Referee."

The original post mentioned players wearing illegal undershirts or jewelry. I agree with using discretion with illegal numbers or uniform problems at the lower levels. But that is NO excuse for ignoring jewelry violations. Those are a safety problem. And there's also no excuse for allowing illegal undershirts under a uni imo. I don't have a problem with anyone ignoring infractions listed under rule 3-4 UNIFORMS at the lower levels, but there is no excuse imo for ignoring infractions under rule 3-5 TEAM MEMBER'S EQUIPMENT, APPAREL at any level. Those are the exact instructions that we give out to members of our association btw.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The original post mentioned players wearing illegal undershirts or jewelry. I agree with using discretion with illegal numbers or uniform problems at the lower levels. But that is NO excuse for ignoring jewelry violations. Those are a safety problem. And there's also no excuse for allowing illegal undershirts under a uni imo. I don't have a problem with anyone ignoring infractions listed under rule 3-4 UNIFORMS at the lower levels, but there is no excuse imo for ignoring infractions under rule 3-5 TEAM MEMBER'S EQUIPMENT, APPAREL at any level. Those are the exact instructions that we give out to members of our association btw.

+1

On the OP -- it needs to be raised within the association. Or, just go over to the other team and tell them yourself -- there's plenty of time to do that while the R is at the table checking the book, etc. Or -- just mention it casually in the pre-game meeting with the coaches and captains.