Free-throws Offset?

[IchiRef]

Frequent reader, infrequent poster here. Had a couple of situations I had questions about. Both happened in my games...

Play 1-
A1 is fouled by B1 (A is in double bonus), A1 retaliates and my partner calls a T on A1. My partner states that the Free Throws offset, so no on will be shooting. This is incorrect right? Free throws only offset on 2 T's?

Play 2-
Different game. A1 has been warned about his physical play and told to clean it up. A few minutes later, A1 is lined up on the line during a free throw, after the last throw (unsuccessful) is in flight A1 throws his forearms into B1's face and partner called a Flagrant foul. Player sits and ball is given to team B at division line opposite table. My question - It has to be a Flagrant Intentional, because it was live ball contact? so ball should have been at the spot of the foul. Also, because the throw was unsuccessful and no one had established possession, should we have gone to the AP arrow?

Thanks!

[mbyron]

Play 1: you're right, no offset here. We don't shoot FT's for a double (personal or technical) foul, but we do for a false double foul, so you could shoot FT's after 2 technical fouls.

Play 2: you could have a flagrant personal foul there (the choice is intentional or flagrant), and you're right that B would get the ball OOB near the spot of the foul. B1 gets 2 FT's first, however, with the lane cleared.

Getting the ball OOB after the FT's for the flagrant personal foul is part of the penalty for the foul, so no, you would not go to the arrow.

[bainsey]

I agree with mbryon.

Player/team control is irrelevant on a flagrant foul. It's two shots, and the ball nearest the spot of the foul. (Had it been a flagrant technical, two shots and ball at the division line.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IchiRef

Play 2-
Different game. A1 has been warned about his physical play and told to clean it up. A few minutes later, A1 is lined up on the line during a free throw, after the last throw (unsuccessful) is in flight A1 throws his forearms into B1's face and partner called a Flagrant foul. Player sits and ball is given to team B at division line opposite table. My question - It has to be a Flagrant Intentional, because it was live ball contact?

There is no such animal under the rules as an intentional flagrant foul, be that foul either personal or technical in nature. You're right about the live ball contact, so the only choices you now have are a personal foul, an intentional personal foul or a flagrant personal foul. Always a judgment call.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Play 1: you're right, no offset here. We don't shoot FT's for a double (personal or technical) foul, but we do for a false double foul, so you could shoot FT's after 2 technical fouls.

Play 2: you could have a flagrant personal foul there (the choice is intentional or flagrant), and you're right that B would get the ball OOB near the spot of the foul. B1 gets 2 FT's first, however, with the lane cleared.

Getting the ball OOB after the FT's for the flagrant personal foul is part of the penalty for the foul, so no, you would not go to the arrow.

Very nice breakdown and explanation, mbyron!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Very nice breakdown and explanation, mbyron!

Thank you, Mr. Road.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by IchiRef

Frequent reader, infrequent poster here. Had a couple of situations I had questions about. Both happened in my games...

Play 1-
A1 is fouled by B1 (A is in double bonus), A1 retaliates and my partner calls a T on A1. My partner states that the Free Throws offset, so no on will be shooting. This is incorrect right? Free throws only offset on 2 T's?

...

Who were you working with, Ed Hochuli?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

There is no such animal under the rules as an intentional flagrant foul.

Regarding different types of fouls: Always listen to Jurassic Referee. He's what you call an expert. This I know from experience.