Certified vs. non-certified

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see no reason to have them certified to work a volunteer position. I believe the area you're talking about, where crews are certified through the local officials' association, pays the table crews a modest fee.

I have yet to have a problem with table crew that isn't solved by a simple pregame reminding them when to buzz on subs (ie, not when the coach yells "sub") and the proper timing for buzzers.

Snaq, that's what I am meaning is that everyone that works the table is paid, not volunteer. From what I've experienced working the 3A/4A Regionals, a paid crew takes their duties/responsibilities more seriously than just a random person that volunteers.

Yes I volunteer myself, but I do it as a support of my alma mater & for the love of the game & to help better the game (if this last part makes any sense).

The regular person that does the Varsity games only gets paid $35 a night to do only 2 games ($17.50 a game) non-certified. During 3A/4A Regionals, I was getting paid a rate of $10 a game, also non-certified. There are scheduled 9 home games with both Varsities playing for 2010-2011. Using this formula, the regular person will be getting $315 minus any playoff games. If was to use the $10 a game formula, would be getting $180.

Now the question is, in those areas where the table is also certified, how much is the per game rate? Or if becomes certified, how much per game should a person working table get?

For certification purposes, the only ones I see who should be certified are the scorer (official book), timer/scoreboard, & shot clock (for those states that use it). As I've seen it, the visitors' scorebook is there just as a reference tool.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Now the question is, in those areas where the table is also certified, how much is the per game rate? Or if becomes certified, how much per game should a person working table get?

Have you seen anyone on here post that the table crews in their state is certified? No.

One poster posts that his state has an association for scorers and timers. That's it.

Most crews are volunteers. Schools can't afford it. They don't pay anyone. It doesn't exist. Nobody is certified. Don't you get it?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Snaq, that's what I am meaning is that everyone that works the table is paid, not volunteer. From what I've experienced working the 3A/4A Regionals, a paid crew takes their duties/responsibilities more seriously than just a random person that volunteers.

From what I've seen at the high school varsity level and below, I have no way of knowing which crews get a small payment and which ones don't. Virtually every crew I've seen at the high school level is doing a good job.

There's no problem that needs fixing here.

[zm1283]

FWIW the vast majority of the table crews around here from varsity/JV games all the way down to junior high games are paid.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by zm1283

FWIW the vast majority of the table crews around here from varsity/JV games all the way down to junior high games are paid.

Here, too. It's not a lot. Maybe $15 or $20 a game. But official scorer and timer get paid.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Now the question is, in those areas where the table is also certified, how much is the per game rate? Or if becomes certified, how much per game should a person working table get?

How long could it possibly take to become "certified" to be a clock operator. A person of reasonable intelligence who has never even been to a game could be taught to do a credible job of this in a matter of minutes.

Next question: Do you think we have enough apples in the world?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Next question: Do you think we have enough apples in the world?

There can never be enough apples, oranges, bananas, or nuts in the world

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How long could it possibly take to become "certified" to be a clock operator. A person of reasonable intelligence who has never even been to a game could be taught to do a credible job of this in a matter of minutes.

Next question: Do you think we have enough apples in the world?

I sat at the table once and ran the clock / scoreboard during a camp. I had trouble doing this, even with a running clock. Gave me appreciation for the job -- if you're doing the time, score, fouls, etc. it's not *that* easy.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I sat at the table once and ran the clock / scoreboard during a camp. I had trouble doing this, even with a running clock. Gave me appreciation for the job -- if you're doing the time, score, fouls, etc. it's not *that* easy.

I started running the clock/book for "real" (i.e., non-camp) games when I was a wee lad. It's not that difficult, but it definitely takes a little time to get it down cold.

But my first scrimmage this year one college kid was doing book, clock, scoreboard and the shot clock. Granted he wasn't keeping individual fouls or scores, and it was a running clock, but I was still impressed at his ability to do all three jobs. Did a pretty good job of it too.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

Maybe the most important instruction to a new scorebook keeper: Make sure you and I have eye contact. Look me in the eye! Then record the foul.

I've seen that happen where the floor official actually looked at the scorer & said "pay attention or you will be replaced" when was reporting a foul.

Originally Posted by just another ref

How long could it possibly take to become "certified" to be a clock operator. A person of reasonable intelligence who has never even been to a game could be taught to do a credible job of this in a matter of minutes.

That can depend on the scoreboard controls being used & the person's knowledge of the game.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chseagle

That can depend on the scoreboard controls being used & the person's knowledge of the game.

The switch is either "on" or "off". It can't take more than 15 seconds to learn how to switch between the two positions.

"Start the clock when someone inbounds touches the ball. Stop it when the whistle blows. Any questions? Let's review -- when will you start the clock on the jump ball?"

Repeat if needed.

Total time less than 1 minute.

There aren't that many (any?) exceptions or unusual circumstances to learn.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Start the clock when someone inbounds touches the ball.

Except on a successful free throw.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Stop it when the whistle blows.

It doesn't get much simpler than that.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The switch is either "on" or "off". It can't take more than 15 seconds to learn how to switch between the two positions.

"Start the clock when someone inbounds touches the ball. Stop it when the whistle blows. Any questions? Let's review -- when will you start the clock on the jump ball?"

Repeat if needed.

Total time less than 1 minute.

There aren't that many (any?) exceptions or unusual circumstances to learn.

Yes, it's really that easy just to do time on the scoreboard, however I was also meaning doing score & fouls on the scoreboard. Each manufacturer has a different setup for their board's controls.

So far, I've used scoreboard controls from 2 manufacturers (All-American Scoreboards & Daktronics). There are differences between the two boards on the control schemes.

For the Daktronics board scheme that I used last, in order for points to be on the board 1st we had to press Pts. +1 (or +2 or +3 depending on the point value of the shot) then using the numerical keypad we had to input the player's number. Same thing for the fouls. (The Daktronics Board automatically kept track of the player points (as well as overall team score, player fouls, & team fouls)). When there were subs there were a couple of options.

For the All-American Scoreboard scheme at CHS that I use throughout the season, all we do for points is press Pts. +1 (or +2 or +3). For fouls, 1st we have to press player foul, input player number, enter, foul number, enter, then we have to press team foul, foul number, enter. For the All-American Board everything had to be inputted.

So yes being timer can be easy, yet it can also be hard, if a person doesn't know what they're doing.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

So yes being timer can be easy, yet it can also be hard, if a person doesn't know what they're doing.

In which case he has no business sitting behind the table.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Yes, it's really that easy just to do time on the scoreboard, however I was also meaning doing score & fouls on the scoreboard. Each manufacturer has a different setup for their board's controls.

So far, I've used scoreboard controls from 2 manufacturers (All-American Scoreboards & Daktronics). There are differences between the two boards on the control schemes.

For the Daktronics board scheme that I used last, in order for points to be on the board 1st we had to press Pts. +1 (or +2 or +3 depending on the point value of the shot) then using the numerical keypad we had to input the player's number. Same thing for the fouls. (The Daktronics Board automatically kept track of the player points (as well as overall team score, player fouls, & team fouls)). When there were subs there were a couple of options.

For the All-American Scoreboard scheme at CHS that I use throughout the season, all we do for points is press Pts. +1 (or +2 or +3). For fouls, 1st we have to press player foul, input player number, enter, foul number, enter, then we have to press team foul, foul number, enter. For the All-American Board everything had to be inputted.

So yes being timer can be easy, yet it can also be hard, if a person doesn't know what they're doing.

In the grand scheme of things, keeping track of fouls and score, while a major convenience for everyone involved, is secondary to correct timing. The first thing I'm worried about the TIMER doing is...well keeping time. Second would be score just cause you'll have the coaches and players going crazy if the score is wrong on the board. The rest is just gravy.