Certified vs. non-certified

[chseagle]

I took the recommendations of several on here & decided to e-mail the WIAA as to why there is not an organization/association for the table officials as there is for the floor officials.

The response received was that it's a good idea to have those that work the table certified like the floor officials, however "There are far too many jobs that are done in running any athletic event to certify each of the positions."

For those that have had the luxury to do games where the table crew is certified (or part of the association), what are the advantages/disadvantages?

Which do you prefer?

[APG]

Are there even any state associations that certify table crews? I have never worked a game with a "certified" table. In fact, the only level where I've had any appreciable issues with the table is the sub-varsity level. And at that level, there's no way you'd get anyone to work if they had to be certified.

The games where I've had officials I know working the table, the advantages were slight. Timely reminders about a team near the bonus/double bonus without asking, no clock issues, and knowing the table crew is as unbiased as the officials working the game. Again, nothing really that great. I guess one could have peace of mind knowing the table knows what it's doing?

As to what I prefer, in an ideal world, the table crew would be as "trained" and "certified" as the officials, but I don't really think it's necessary at all, not at the high school level at least. There's enough problems as it is getting certified officials to work all games. A quick pregame with the table usually means no issues during the games I've worked.

[chseagle]

Speaking of pregames between the floor officials & the table, as of lately (last year) all the pregame was, that I remember, was just cheking the books & asking if anyone had any questions. (Stupid me for not thinking of mentioning that the scorebooks needed reminders at that time of their duties/responsibilities , especially before C squad matches where it was students doing the books).

I thought I remembered in Nevada or somewhere in the southwest there was an association where the table crew were trained/certified.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Are there even any state associations that certify table crews? I have never worked a game with a "certified" table. In fact, the only level where I've had any appreciable issues with the table is the sub-varsity level. And at that level, there's no way you'd get anyone to work if they had to be certified.

The games where I've had officials I know working the table, the advantages were slight. Timely reminders about a team near the bonus/double bonus without asking, no clock issues, and knowing the table crew is as unbiased as the officials working the game. Again, nothing really that great. I guess one could have peace of mind knowing the table knows what it's doing?

As to what I prefer, in an ideal world, the table crew would be as "trained" and "certified" as the officials, but I don't really think it's necessary at all, not at the high school level at least. There's enough problems as it is getting certified officials to work all games. A quick pregame with the table usually means no issues during the games I've worked.

[BillyMac]

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, if they have a pulse they're certified. If they don't have a pulse, then we'll use them anyway. Beggars can't be choosers.

[Judtech]

I work with several tables, HS and NCAA, that are certifiable!

[zm1283]

What do you guys include in your quick pregame with the table crews? I need to start doing that more often when the varsity season rolls around.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Are there even any state associations that certify table crews? I have never worked a game with a "certified" table. In fact, the only level where I've had any appreciable issues with the table is the sub-varsity level. And at that level, there's no way you'd get anyone to work if they had to be certified.

The games where I've had officials I know working the table, the advantages were slight. Timely reminders about a team near the bonus/double bonus without asking, no clock issues, and knowing the table crew is as unbiased as the officials working the game. Again, nothing really that great. I guess one could have peace of mind knowing the table knows what it's doing?

I wouldn't mind being certified, even though majority of the time I do the Sub-Varsity contests.

Sure the past two years, I assisted with the 3A/4A Regionals doing scoreboard/timer, which I did to give some sense of neutrality since I did not support any of the schools participating.

The one Varsity game I did last year, due to the primary person being out sick, I was wishing I could have a table like that all the time. Of course, like has been mentioned before, it's nearly impossible to have a reliable/responsible table in the Sub-Varsity games when having to deal with students & not adults.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Chseagle,
Wisconsin has a basketball scorekeepers and timers association-info is below!
Wisconsin Scorers and Timers Association
Daniel Wildt
6220 South 39th St. - Greenfield, WI 53221-4522
(414) 423-0454 [email protected]



Zm1283,
Around here the only pregame interaction is the exchange of pleasantries, lead official checks book to make sure players on floor match what I have, and maybe some situational procedures such as not using the horn for subs.

A lot of the crews in our league have worked together for a long time so a pregame is not really essential unless there is a rule change or procedure affecting us. However, if an official were conducting a formal pre-game with my crew here is what it would consist of:

A.Crews introduce themselves
B.Book check & cell phone reminder
C.Pre-Game procedure (Introduction of starters, national anthem, pregame prayer-stuff of that nature!)
D.Any in game situational preferences (Horn/No horn for subs-as an example)
E.Let's have fun and go to work!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I wouldn't mind being certified, even though majority of the time I do the Sub-Varsity contests.

If it means anything, I think you're certifiable.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If it means anything, I think you're certifiable.

LMAO If I was certifiable, I would of, at least once, been put in a straight jacket & locked up in a rubber room.

My reasoning for asking everyone's preference is cause of knowing that different people have been trained differently.

My thinking is that if there was an organization where table crews were certified & the rule was only those certified could be used that games, as a whole, would go more smoothly from a game management standpoint. Also this way a floor official would know exactly what training/knowledge the table crew has.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

LMAO If I was certifiable, I would of, at least once, been put in a straight jacket & locked up in a rubber room.

My reasoning for asking everyone's preference is cause of knowing that different people have been trained differently.

My thinking is that if there was an organization where table crews were certified & the rule was only those certified could be used that games, as a whole, would go more smoothly from a game management standpoint. Also this way a floor official would know exactly what training/knowledge the table crew has.

There are far too many jobs that are done in running any athletic event to certify each of the positions.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

There are far too many jobs that are done in running any athletic event to certify each of the positions.

I am only concerned with the 2 (or 3 depending on the state) at the table. (Scorer, Timer/Scoreboard, & Shot Clock)

The coaches are supposed to be certified (though that can be disputed).

The floor officials are certified (otherwise they wouldn't be there).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

There are far too many jobs that are done in running any athletic event to certify each of the positions.

As long as the hot dog concession vendor is certified, then I'm satisfied. Everyone else? Who cares? No other job is as important as getting a really good hot dog after the game.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As long as the hot dog concession vendor is certified, then I'm satisfied. Everyone else? Who cares? No other job is as important as getting a really good hot dog after the game.

In other words, as long as they have Food Handler Credentials, you're good?

[just another ref]

In theory, you could demand that only those certified in cleaning toilets be allowed to do so, but when you're sitting there I think it would be difficult to tell the difference.