2010 - 2011 Interps

[Scrapper1]

Hi ejn. Welcome to the forum. I hope that it'll be helpful to you during the season.

Unfortunately, I'm going to disagree with your analysis of this interpretation. Just a couple of points.

Originally Posted by ejn1958

This doesn't fall under any of the correctable areas. An officials judgment mistake is not correctable.

But this is not a judgment call. Everyone recognizes that the clock showed .3 and everyone recognizes that the throw-in pass was caught before the try. There's no judgment involved whatsoever. They saw the clock, they saw the catch and they set aside a rule and counted the basket.

This is not erroneoulsy counting or canceling a score. That refers to the scorer counting a basket on a player control foul when the official cancelled the basket, or not counting a made basket as signaled by the official, etc.

As Gamer pointed out, what you describe is actually not a correctable error. It's correctable, but it does not fall under the jurisdiction of Rule 2-10. What you describe is a mistake by the scorer, not the officials; and as such, can be corrected at any time before the final score is approved.

someone alert the other partners when the situation is about to come into play. There is no reason that the officials can't come together prior to the throw-in & say:"hey, we've got 3/10's left, they can't catch & release, only tap, so whose ever primary it is, kill it if it's caught & thrown".

I agree with you completely on this. We get together at the end of the game to review the situation and "anticipate the play". This is one of the things we should remind each other about.

[ejn1958]

Ok,

Great conversation everyone. yes, erroneoulsy counting a score could also include an official counting a basket on a player control foul, etc., within the timeframes allowed by the rule.
I'll give you another play exampple that hopefully will illustrate why you can't correct that error of catch & shoot. (yes, it is considered by rule an official's mistake.)

5 seconds left in the half. A1 intercepts a pass from B1 to B2 along the baseline and dribbles towards the wrong basket. A1 picks up his/ her dribble and shoots at the wrong basket and misses. The ball hits the backboard and/or rim, and A1 rebounds and tries to put the ball back into the wrong goal. During this 2nd “attempt”, B1 fouls A1 on the arm. Both teams are in the bonus. The horn sounds and ends the half.
Do you:
A) award A1 2 shots for being fouled while in the act of shooting? (of course not, not really a legal shot.
B) Call a common foul & award A1 the bonus free throws?

Answer: neither: There is no foul on the play. The ball was dead when A1 touched the ball after throwing the ball at the wrong basket, thus committing a dribbling violation. A1’s dribble ended when A1 picked up the ball to attempt the 1st “shot” (not a legal shot). When A1 purposely, even by mistake, “shot” the ball at the opponents backboard or rim, (the rim is considered part of the backboard) it was the start of another dribble. The instant A1 touches the ball again, A1 should be called for the double dribble violation, and the ball awarded to Team B at the spot nearest the violation.

Case Book: page 74, 9.5

Now let's say that the official's erroneously awarded A1 the bonus free throws & A1 made both shots. If during the intermission, someone points out the rule mistake by the officials, or as you put it, the officials setting aside a rule, could you come back & wipe off the bonus free throws by A1 because you got the rule wrong or forgot about it: No...too late. The refs blew the call, just as they did when they didn't recognize the catch by the player with 3/10's left. You can't go back & enforce the rule after the fact when it is an officials error. Not recognizing the catch & throw is exactly the same: an official's mistake in not recognizing the violation on the last second shot.

Hope that helps. Have a great season & safe travels!!
-EJN

[APG]

I don't view that as awarding unmerited free throws (which I think is the correctable error you're shooting for there). In your case, you have an illegal dribble followed by a "shot" and foul. The missed call here is the illegal dribble. That doesn't fall under one of the correctable errors. The foul call on the "non-shot" in of itself is a correct call and the free throws are merited.

[ejn1958]

there is no foul, it is not a correct call. It's the same as missing the catch and shoot.

[APG]

Originally Posted by ejn1958

there is no foul, it is not a correct call. It's the same as missing the catch and shoot.

There IS a foul because you said there was a foul in the situation and there's nothing incorrect about calling one. The incorrect part is missing the illegal dribble that preceded the foul.

It's not the same as missing a catch and shoot. In that play, a basket was counted erroneously counted by virtue of the officials setting aside the .3 rule. In your play, the foul call by itself isn't incorrect, rather the missed violation that preceded it was a no call incorrect. Not the same play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ejn1958

there is no foul, it is not a correct call. It's the same as missing the catch and shoot.

But you cannot go back and retroactively make that call. That's not correctable.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ejn1958

there is no foul, it is not a correct call. It's the same as missing the catch and shoot.

It might be an incorrect call, but once you've made it and penalized it, you can't change it. It's an official's error, not a correctable error. That'd be like calling traveling and then later saying "nevermind". Don't work that way.

[Larks]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

"nevermind".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

"nevermind".

Originally Posted by Larks

Are you confusing Emily Litella and Roseanne Roseannadanna?