"I'm 52 years old, and in all my years..."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

bs!!!

+1

Not a very credible statement unless you're Superman.

[icallfouls]

I suppose that all 16 games were uphill, into the wind, the gym was a brick oven, there was no water except for what he squeezed from the blades of grass outside the gym between games where he would conduct wind sprints.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

I suppose that all 16 games were uphill, into the wind, the gym was a brick oven, there was no water except for what he squeezed from the blades of grass outside the gym between games where he would conduct wind sprints.

these games were last weekend at one of the nicer h.s. gyms in the area. the a/c was working just fine. free water for officials at the concession stand, as well. got to work in front of and talk to a few h.s. coaches, as well. neat deal.

[MD Longhorn]

Basketball lurker, football/baseball/softball official here.

I've had many Saturdays where I worked 3-5 75-90 minute football games in the morning and a varsity game that night... or 3-5 60-75 minute softball or baseball games in the morning and a varsity or JV/Vars game at night.

I GUARANTEE you that I and 90% of the other officials I work with in the same boat did what they could to call a decent game but conserve their energy during those peewee or youth games so as to be truly ready for the later contests.

The other factor you're not getting is that when you pay low, the level of official you attract tends to be lower --- not a blanket statement regarding EVERY official you get ... but the average talent/effort is lower because those guys that naturally hustle every game are working somewhere else for more money.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The other factor you're not getting is that when you pay low, the level of official you attract tends to be lower --- not a blanket statement regarding EVERY official you get ... but the average talent/effort is lower because those guys that naturally hustle every game are working somewhere else for more money.

Ding, ding, ding... what do we have for our winner, Johnny?

+1

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

bs!!!

Which part?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by DLH17

edit: I did 8 games Sat and 8 games Sun and never slowed down....

That part is simply unbelievable, especially when you say that you were hustling at all times, using correct mechanics, etc.

Or BS, to put it another way.....

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That part is simply unbelievable, especially when you say that you were hustling at all times, using correct mechanics, etc.

Or BS, to put it another way.....

doing 8 games in a 2 on 1 off format for two days affords three 60 min breaks each day. hustling and using good mechanics is not difficult at all in that format.

8 games in a row on back to back days - ya, that would be a tall order and can see how people would think as they are.

[DLH17]

back to my daughter's games....here's some examples of what i've seen:

trail calling a jump ball at or below the front court ft line extended while he is standing still, positioned at the time line in the backcourt and was straight lined. lead official was moving in to see the play

as lead, coasting into 'position' at just under the ft line extended in the front court
instead of below the base line

official failed to signal, audibly or with a directional, possession on unclear oob violations

official failed to indicated what type of foul was committed - coaches left wondering if there was a push, hold, hand check, block

failed to chock the clock during final two minutes of game when stopped clocked action started

these are off the top of my head

this was the primary reason for my initial comments that perhaps part of the reason why some officials 'get into trouble' might actually be because they bring it on themselves

hustling to be in proper position would probably reduce the number of instances of angst on the part of said official, coaches and players.

then again, he was getting paid $20 for that game, so what should i have expected? the guy to do his job? i guess not.

realistically, there all types of officials...some are not the strongest on the rules...some aren't the strongest game managers....some aren't the best communicators.....some are having bad days.....etc etc. one thing that most officials have control over is their own effort. if effort and hustle are present, i think an official can be much more effective and respected.

[JRutledge]

DLH17,

This is what you said way back in this thread.

Originally Posted by DLH17

And, to be honest, I'm appalled by the lack of hustle and interest on the part of the officials working some of her games. Little to no switching, reporting from the baseline by the lead official, no bump and run.

Anyone that watched me work this weekend (w/ the exception of 52 yr old granny super fan) saw an official that was working his butt off. I despise laziness.

No comments about positioning during live ball or even comments about where at all were made in your original comment. You specifically referenced several dead ball actions which the things highlighted and underlined says. Now when that did not go over well, you now give examples of plays during live ball.

And yes we can control our hustle, but many also realize what these games are. Money grabs and nothing more. I cannot recall that I have ever got a big assignment from a summer AAU ball (or even high school during the summer) game where there was no camp element to them. And because most officials know this, you get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by DLH17

realistically, there all types of officials...some are not the strongest on the rules...some aren't the strongest game managers....some aren't the best communicators.....some are having bad days.....etc etc. one thing that most officials have control over is their own effort. if effort and hustle are present, i think an official can be much more effective and respected.

And I couldn't not really give a damn what coaches think of me during the summer. Be happy I am even out there. I can do other things during that period of time.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by DLH17

back to my daughter's games....here's some examples of what i've seen:

as lead, coasting into 'position' at just under the ft line extended in the front court
instead of below the base line

official failed to indicated what type of foul was committed - coaches left wondering if there was a push, hold, hand check, block

For the record, I frequently do both of these during summer games with a running clock.
A. In my area we work most of our varsity contests with 3 officials. I've learned that the C often has the best look at plays. It can actually be more effective to have a C and T in many situations than a L and T. This is especially true in transition. Therefore, as I come down to the new L, I will often pause around the FT line extended. If the ball stays up high, I'll hold that position for a bit. If offensive team takes a quick shot or drives to the basket, I actually have a great look. If the action settles and they try to work the ball down low, I'll move down to the endline to cover the post players better. The positioning of the players and the ball location dictate where is the best location to observe the action. The end line isn't automatically the best just because the book says to stand there.

B. Who cares if it was a push, hold, or block? It was foul. If the coach needs to know, he can ask. Most of them don't care. You don't see the scorer recording the number of holds do you?

Originally Posted by DLH17

hustling to be in proper position would probably reduce the number of instances of angst on the part of said official, coaches and players.

True. There is more credibility for the call and less for the coach or player when an official is well-positioned. Of course, that isn't going to stop the complaining. If a call goes against a team or player, there will be complaints even if the official has a perfect view.

Originally Posted by DLH17

then again, he was getting paid $20 for that game, so what should i have expected? the guy to do his job? i guess not.

I've tried to explain above that the official can sometimes do his job from positions other than those described in the manual. However, if that argument isn't your cup of tea, then I'll add that if tournament organizers weren't so greedy and didn't attempt to stick as many dollars into their pockets as possible, they could offer more than $20 per game for officials which would attract more officials to an event. This would alleviate the need for officials to work so many games in a day and permit for more effort to be expended during each contest. It is due to the short-sightedness of those who put on the events that officials are forced to conserve their energy and pace themselves throughout the day at these events.
Most officials aren't fabulous athletes. The ones who are won't be working for $20 per game. So again, it's a case of getting what you pay for. If you want to attract better talent then you have to offer more compensation. That's the case in the business world.

Originally Posted by DLH17

...one thing that most officials have control over is their own effort. if effort and hustle are present, i think an official can be much more effective and respected.

There is no argument to that. However, unless one is a marathon specialist, there is a limit to how much one can run during multiple games.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by DLH17

doing 8 games in a 2 on 1 off format for two days affords three 60 min breaks each day. hustling and using good mechanics is not difficult at all in that format.

You hustled and used the correct mechanics on all plays in every game. And you're 52 years old. And you never slowed down one little bit, even in your eighth game of your second day doing 8 games/day.

BS, DLH17, BS.

There's a real world out there. You're living in LaLaLand.

And btw, when everybody in that real world out there tells you that maybe you should re-think your position, don't you think that maybe...just maybe...it might not be a bad idea to consider that option?

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You hustled and used the correct mechanics on all plays in every game. And you're 52 years old. And you never slowed down one little bit, even in your eighth game of your second day doing 8 games/day.

On all plays in every game? Probably not. I'm human.

100% effort to try to be mechanically correct on all plays...w/o a doubt. As mechanically correct as possible most of the time... absolutely. Why would I try not to be?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And btw, when everybody in that real world out there tells you that maybe you should re-think your position, don't you think that maybe...just maybe...it might not be a bad idea to consider that option?

Everybody? I love that. EVERYBODY.

Anyway, to answer your question - did you read my response to Nevadaref? He gave some helpful input. Loved it. Useful. Helped me evaluate my take on lead in 2 man in situations where lead can't get all the way to baseline.

Nevadaref can post on any damn thread he wants and gives damn good feedback w/o blowing a gasket.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by DLH17

doing 8 games in a 2 on 1 off format for two days affords three 60 min breaks each day. hustling and using good mechanics is not difficult at all in that format.

Again.... BS!

Doing the math. In order for you to work 2 on 1 off that would require a set of 16 games. Using NFHS rules and mechanics, each game would take approx 1hr 15 min. That does not allow for OT orteams needing 5-10 minutes to warm up. That adds up to a 16 hr day. You would need to eat and stay properly hydrated, which is harder for older people.

Most games require 4-5 miles of running (stopping, starting, etc). That adds up to 64-80 miles for your 16 game set. For you to keep the pace you claim, you would be an elite marathoner. Even at a steady pace, with no quick transitions, is hard to believe that you had no drop off.

I have been to plenty of camp settings, the kids playing the games have more time off (2 games), have substitutes and are much younger and can recover on their worst day, faster than most 52 yr olds.

So keep on kissing the butts of the coaches and making the same unbelievable claims, you will be rewarded accordingly.

[DLH17]

20 min halves...running clock, except last 2 mins of each half. clock runs when lead hits 15 pts. standard mayb stuff. 3 gyms in separate bldgs on the same campus were used.

saturday sched: 10a/11a on, 12p off, 1p/2p on, 3p off, 4p/5p on, 6 off, 7p/8p on

sunday sched: 10a/11a on, 12p off, 1p/2p on, 3p off, 4p/5p/6p on

yes, i lied. i did 7 on sunday, not 8. i feel terrible. lost track.

never said i did 8 straight.