Leg Tap

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Which rule allows an exception for 10-3-6d?

Obstructing the vision is bad, distracting the shooter is allowed. Depends on just how close the defender gets his hand to the shooter's eyes.

Either Jurassic misspoke or I misunderstood him, too.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Obstructing the vision is bad, distracting the shooter is allowed. Depends on just how close the defender gets his hand to the shooter's eyes.

I'm not aware of any rules citation that will back that statement up, Snaqs. Unless the defender is doing something to the shooter that could be construed as unsportsmanlike, like feinting jabbing stiffened fingers at the shooter's eyes, I was under the impression that any distance short of actual contact was allowed.

An open hand in the face of the shooter is permissible at any distance short of contact by rule afaik.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'm not aware of any rules citation that will back that statement up, Snaqs. Unless the defender is doing something to the shooter that could be construed as unsportsmanlike, like feinting jabbing stiffened fingers at the shooter's eyes, I was under the impression that any distance short of actual contact was allowed.

An open hand in the face of the shooter is permissible at any distance short of contact by rule afaik.

10-3-6d was recently changed to include the player with the ball.

10.3.6A (which, incidentally, references 10-3-6c) notes, "holding or waving hands near the eye for the ostensible purpose of obstructing an opponent's vision is unsporting."

If it's part of challenging the shooter, fine. If he's trying to obstruct the shooter's vision, it's not fine. To me, we have to judge their intent, and 99.9999999992% of the time it's legal. But the fact is, if they do it with the intent of obstructing the shooter's vision, it's not legal.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

10-3-6d was recently changed to include the player with the ball.

10.3.6A (which, incidentally, references 10-3-6c) notes, "holding or waving hands near the eye for the ostensible purpose of obstructing an opponent's vision is unsporting."

If it's part of challenging the shooter, fine. If he's trying to obstruct the shooter's vision, it's not fine. To me, we have to judge their intent, and 99.9999999992% of the time it's legal. But the fact is, if they do it with the intent of obstructing the shooter's vision, it's not legal.

Disagree. Intent is NOT part of the rule and doesn't play any part in the adjudication. A defender putting a hand in the face of a shooter was and is legal. It has never been illegal. The POE cited above couldn't be plainer in that respect.

See BillyMac's cite and previous thread on face guarding. There's several older threads on the same topic also.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. Intent is NOT part of the rule and doesn't play any part in the adjudication. A defender putting a hand in the face of a shooter was and is legal. It has never been illegal. The POE cited above couldn't be plainer in that respect.

See BillyMac's cite and previous thread on face guarding. There's several older threads on the same topic also.

Okay, so let me quote BillyMac's posted POE, "The rule and point of emphasis is designed to penalize actions that are clearly not related to playing the game of basketball properly and that intentionally restrict vision."

Nothing in the the rule excludes the shooter from protection here, and there's nothing in the POE that leads me to believe the shooter is somehow fair game for this practice.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Okay, so let me quote BillyMac's posted POE, "The rule and point of emphasis is designed to penalize actions that are clearly not related to playing the game of basketball properly and that intentionally restrict vision."

Nothing in the the rule excludes the shooter from protection here, and there's nothing in the POE that leads me to believe the shooter is somehow fair game for this practice.

Well, if you think the following from that POE is nothing it sureasheck ain't worth discussing it any further with you....

"The committee does not intend for good defense to be penalized. CHALLENGING A SHOOTER WITH A 'HAND IN THE FACE' or fronting a post player with a hand in the air to prevent a post pass ARE EXAMPLES OF ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR."

I don't know what could be clearer...but that's just me.

I'd recommend that anybody reading this talk to a competent and recognized rules interpreter before calling a "T" on a defender putting an open hand in a shooter's face.

[Judtech]

For my own edification, could I ask for some clarification:

Player A1 is going up for a jump shot...
1. B1 places their hand directly in the face of the shooter
2. B1 attempts to block the shot and in the course of that attempt their hand
ends up directly in front of the shooters face
3. Prior to the shot attempt, A1 is in "triple threat", B1 closes out with a hand in A1 face and keeps it there as A1 attempts their shot.

All legal? I am actually seeing this type of 'defensive' move more and would like to make sure I am on top of the correct rulings and schools of thought.
IMO: (which is chiseled in yogart)
1. Non basketball play. The shooter goes from a clear field of vision to that vision being purposefully obstructed in a non basketball way.
2. Clearly a basketball play
3. Could go either way. Depends on what the 'divined' intent of the defender is. Did the hand intentionally go to A1's face? Is B1 just staying on their feet defensively and their hand and the shooters face end up at the exact same height off the floor.
These are the plays I have seen this spring and any of the afore mentioned thoughts are more than open to change.