Leg Tap

[Pantherdreams]

The important question would seem to be if you call this a foul wouldn't it mean you need to call it unsportsmanlike?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

The important question would seem to be if you call this a foul wouldn't it mean you need to call it unsportsmanlike?

How so?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How so?

Because the defender was basically just trying to be a pain in the arse, and not really defending the shot in any manner. The defender knew very well what he was doing.

That said, a technical foul seems very out of place here. If anything, it's one of those "don't do that" hand-check fouls. If you call it, it seems "ticky-tack" to some. If you don't, it's "hey ref, didn't you see what he did?!" to others.

I submit one way to handle it is to call the foul, and give the defender a look as if to say, "what did you do THAT for?" I believe all would get the message there.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Because the defender was basically just trying to be a pain in the arse, and not really defending the shot in any manner. The defender knew very well what he was doing.

That said, a technical foul seems very out of place here. If anything, it's one of those "don't do that" hand-check fouls. If you call it, it seems "ticky-tack" to some. If you don't, it's "hey ref, didn't you see what he did?!" to others.

I submit one way to handle it is to call the foul, and give the defender a look as if to say, "what did you do THAT for?" I believe all would get the message there.

Unsportsmanlike in Panther's rule set (FIBA) is equivalent to our intentional foul. He's essentially saying we should call it intentional, unless he was speaking our language and suggesting we call a T.

Thing is you can't call a T for this by rule since it's live ball contact.

[Pantherdreams]

I was using our language (pretty sure this equates to intentional in your rules) below is section I'm looking at. Keep in mind "contact" here is already meant to be understood as illegal contact. Note: I personally take exception to the way we are asked to interpret some of these rules but everyone's got a boss right.

36.1.3 To judge whether a foul is unsportsmanlike, the officials should apply the following
principles:
 If a player is making no effort to play the ball and contact occurs, it is an
unsportsmanlike foul.
 If a player, in an effort to play the ball, causes excessive contact (hard foul), it is
an unsportsmanlike foul.
 If a defensive player causes contact with an opponent from behind or laterally
in an attempt to stop a fast break and there is no opponent between the
offensive player and the opponents’ basket, it is an unsportsmanlike foul.
 If a player commits a foul while making a legitimate effort to play the ball
(normal play), it is not an unsportsmanlike foul.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I was using our language (pretty sure this equates to intentional in your rules) below is section I'm looking at. Keep in mind "contact" here is already meant to be understood as illegal contact. Note: I personally take exception to the way we are asked to interpret some of these rules but everyone's got a boss right.

36.1.3 To judge whether a foul is unsportsmanlike, the officials should apply the following principles:
• If a player is making no effort to play the ball and contact occurs, it is an unsportsmanlike foul.
• If a player, in an effort to play the ball, causes excessive contact (hard foul), it is an unsportsmanlike foul.
• If a defensive player causes contact with an opponent from behind or laterally in an attempt to stop a fast break and there is no opponent between the offensive player and the opponents’ basket, it is an unsportsmanlike foul.
• If a player commits a foul while making a legitimate effort to play the ball (normal play), it is not an unsportsmanlike foul.

The second and third cases are out of the question, here. So we have to consider 1 and 4. What's "play the ball"? It's not "going for the ball" which is even not considered good defense, in general; moreover, this interpretation would rule any off-ball foul as unsportsmanlike, for example.

"Playing the ball" is doing any defensive or offensive movement which is normal during a basketball game (it's the remark in the fourth case). "Playing the ball" may cause illegal contact, because of different players' skills, defensive or offensive errors and so on. Pushing a dribbler from behind is not "playing the ball", nor it is tripping. Just some examples.

Is jumping in front of a shooter legitimate defense? I'd say yes. Is the contact excessive? I'd say no, in the original play (assuming contact took place). Therefore no U.

Ciao

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

The second and third cases are out of the question, here. So we have to consider 1 and 4. What's "play the ball"? It's not "going for the ball" which is even not considered good defense, in general; moreover, this interpretation would rule any off-ball foul as unsportsmanlike, for example.

"Playing the ball" is doing any defensive or offensive movement which is normal during a basketball game (it's the remark in the fourth case). "Playing the ball" may cause illegal contact, because of different players' skills, defensive or offensive errors and so on. Pushing a dribbler from behind is not "playing the ball", nor it is tripping. Just some examples.

Is jumping in front of a shooter legitimate defense? I'd say yes. Is the contact excessive? I'd say no, in the original play (assuming contact took place). Therefore no U.

Ciao

That's intereseting though I see it differently. Jumping in front of a shooter is legitmate defense, reaching out and hitting them in the leg when the ball is not down there is not. (IMO)

I understand the officials that in a given situation would let it slide as incidental at some high levels, or want to warn the kid first at a lower level to make sure the kid knows they're doing something wrong.

So here was my train of thought.
- Is it a foul at all? I tend to think yes. He is taking liberties at airborne shooter who can't protect himself, and while not immediately disadvantaging the opponent is creating contact that is unnecessary and could lead to rough play. Therefore illegal contact. Foul.

touch or 'jab' an opponent with or without the ball is a foul, as it may
lead to rough play.

- Is the foul now unsportsmanlike? If it is foul, he not making an attempt at the to play the ball and doesn't make it across to to challenge the shot. He's simply reaching out and whacking the shooter in the leg to try to distract him. As i look at it, if its enough that I need to blow the whistle its going to be an unsportsmanlike or tech.

If a player is making no effort to play the ball and contact occurs, it is an
unsportsmanlike foul.

A technical foul by a coach, assistant coach, substitute, excluded player or team
follower is a foul for disrespectfully communicating with or touching the officials,
the commissioner, the table officials or the opponents, or an infraction of a
procedural or an administrative nature.