"Spirit of the Rules"

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by asdf

While I do not blindly endorse this philosophy, there are times when spirit and intent supercedes the written rule in a given situation.

Example(s) please.

[asdf]

Final minute of 1st period. Score 14-14

A12 in control of the basketball just inside the center jump circle.

Team B, satisfied with their position after 7 minutes, settles into a 2-3 zone, allowing A12 to hold the ball.

Head Coach from A instructs A12 to "hold the ball until 8 seconds on the clock, then run Tennessee special."

A33, sets up on the left block right next to B25. Both understand this is a "free breather" and are both waiting for the clock to get to 8. In fact, both players are standing next to each other with hands on hips, talking to each other about how good a first period it has been.

Who's calling a 3 second violation here ? (9-7-2)

Not me.............

[tref]

Originally Posted by asdf

Final minute of 1st period. Score 14-14

A12 in control of the basketball just inside the center jump circle.

Team B, satisfied with their position after 7 minutes, settles into a 2-3 zone, allowing A12 to hold the ball.

Head Coach from A instructs A12 to "hold the ball until 8 seconds on the clock, then run Tennessee special."

A33, sets up on the left block right next to B25. Both understand this is a "free breather" and are both waiting for the clock to get to 8. In fact, both players are standing next to each other with hands on hips, talking to each other about how good a first period it has been.

Who's calling a 3 second violation here ? (9-7-2)

Not me.............

Prime example of "right call, wrong time."

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by asdf

Final minute of 1st period. Score 14-14

A12 in control of the basketball just inside the center jump circle.

Team B, satisfied with their position after 7 minutes, settles into a 2-3 zone, allowing A12 to hold the ball.

Head Coach from A instructs A12 to "hold the ball until 8 seconds on the clock, then run Tennessee special."

A33, sets up on the left block right next to B25. Both understand this is a "free breather" and are both waiting for the clock to get to 8. In fact, both players are standing next to each other with hands on hips, talking to each other about how good a first period it has been.

Who's calling a 3 second violation here ? (9-7-2)

Not me.............

Why not? How do you know B went into a zone because they were "satisfied", and not because they wanted to protect their bigs from picking up any dumb fouls? Do you know for sure B's coach wouldn't rather go into halftime with a lead, and you've just screwed them out of a violation and turnover? Why does does A33 get a break from you because they're dumb enough to stand in the lane, even you know that's not their "intent"?

[asdf]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Why not? How do you know B went into a zone because they were "satisfied", and not because they wanted to protect their bigs from picking up any dumb fouls? Do you know for sure B's coach wouldn't rather go into halftime with a lead, and you've just screwed them out of a violation and turnover? Why does does A33 get a break from you because they're dumb enough to stand in the lane, even you know that's not their "intent"?

Because I'm smart enough to know that none of these apply in this situation.

Change 1st period to 4th period and the score from 14-14 to 74-74.

I am not telling A's Head Coach that A33's heels were barely touching the lane boundary line.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by asdf

Because I'm smart enough to know that none of these apply in this situation.

Change 1st period to 4th period and the score from 14-14 to 74-74.

I am not telling A's Head Coach that A33's heels were barely touching the lane boundary line.

Where did you mention in the original post that only A33's heels were on the line? The implication was A33 was in the lane, otherwise why would anyone call a 3-sec. violation?

If this is a game of "gotcha", I'm not playing. I took from your post that you would not make the call solely because both players are simply standing there, and A33 is not gaining a specific advantage because both teams "appear" to be content with running out the clock. If that wasn't your meaning, I'm sorry. If it was, then I still stand by my answer - we should still call the violation if it exists, in the 1st quarter or the 4th.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by asdf

Final minute of 1st period. Score 14-14

A12 in control of the basketball just inside the center jump circle.

Team B, satisfied with their position after 7 minutes, settles into a 2-3 zone, allowing A12 to hold the ball.

Head Coach from A instructs A12 to "hold the ball until 8 seconds on the clock, then run Tennessee special."

A33, sets up on the left block right next to B25. Both understand this is a "free breather" and are both waiting for the clock to get to 8. In fact, both players are standing next to each other with hands on hips, talking to each other about how good a first period it has been.

Who's calling a 3 second violation here ? (9-7-2)

Not me.............

I'm just spit ballin here. "Watch the lane fella's/ladies" might be a good way to go.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I'm just spit ballin here. "Watch the lane fella's/ladies" might be a good way to go.

Might be.

But, just spit ballin' here - what if you already said that earlier in the quarter? Do you say it again? What if you say it and they're not paying attention because they're busy comparing stats with each other, or talking about who they're taking to the prom?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Might be.

But, just spit ballin' here - what if you already said that earlier in the quarter? Do you say it again? What if you say it and they're not paying attention because they're busy comparing stats with each other, or talking about who they're taking to the prom?

What's the signal for fraternizing? What's the penalty?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What's the signal for fraternizing? What's the penalty?

I don't think the NFHS has an official signal, so of couse it's our job to make one up.

As far as the penalty, I think it depends upon the ages of the fraternizers.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Might be.

But, just spit ballin' here - what if you already said that earlier in the quarter? Do you say it again? What if you say it and they're not paying attention because they're busy comparing stats with each other, or talking about who they're taking to the prom?

I just must have a voice that commands attention and adherence!! In your situation, i would have no problem reminding them about the lane again. If the player chooses to ignore it, I can't say I didn't try. And boy will that coach be upset with his player!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I just must have a voice that commands attention and adherence!! In your situation, i would have no problem reminding them about the lane again. If the player chooses to ignore it, I can't say I didn't try. And boy will that coach be upset with his player!!

If you have to say it again, then your voice isn't commanding obedience.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I just must have a voice that commands attention and adherence!! In your situation, i would have no problem reminding them about the lane again. If the player chooses to ignore it, I can't say I didn't try. And boy will that coach be upset with his player!!

While I agree with an occasional reminder, I disagree with this. Why should they be reminded again? There is no provision in the rules for any type of warning on violations, although I agree is there is some precedence (or is it precedent?...well, crap, how about "there's people that have done it before?...) for doing it. But I've also been told that if you say it loud enough for others to hear, then it's time to call the violation. And I've certainly been told that if I have to say it more than once, then I should've called the violation instead of saying it a second time. Remember, this is still the 1st period, so not a lot of time has elapsed if you did say something earlier.

I just don't agree with not making a call simply because I'm trying to avoid taking grief for making it. Last minute of a 30-point game, I'm probably not looking for it. 1st period, or 1st half of a tie game, I would say every posession is still critical. I'm not bailing out a dumb player in that instance.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I'm just spit ballin here. "Watch the lane fella's/ladies" might be a good way to go.

Hey - watch those travels, guys. Hey - watch those stepping out of bounds, guys. Hey - watch those punches in the mouth, guys.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Hey - watch those travels, guys. Hey - watch those stepping out of bounds, guys. Hey - watch those punches in the mouth, guys.

OMG, you must have been at the AAU Tournament I was at last weekend!?!?! Were you the other guy wearing a black and white stripped shirt I was just commenting on the specific play as givien.

I will admit that I have been know from time to time to verbally warn a player in the post that it might be in their best interest to vacate the premises. Usually if a player is just ball watching or just hanging out, I will try to snap the player out of their daze. I just say "Lane" and that usually works. If that oratory gem doesn't do the trick, I make a high schrieking sound with a little plastic object I sometimes use. That often does the trick as well!!!
As an adendum, so SOME people don't jump to a negative conclusion, I am NOT a big fan of doing that when it comes to fouls. That is just to slippery a slope IMO.