Coach's Nightmare - Officials Making Up Rules

[Pantherdreams]

Just looking for some feedback.

Our middle school leagues are discussing some rule adjustments. Currently the only major deviations from FIBA rules is the length of quarters (7.5 min) and a no zone rule. (The no zone rule is to be called as a plugging the key call so you can zone press.)

One of the latest rule changes they are discussing is to eliminate ball screens. They have asked officials if we were to try and remove ball screens from the game how would we call it. Would we want it to be a foul, violation, etc. Since we would enforce it how would we want it called? Then we get into screens that act as ball screens (dribble attacking at a cutter, hand offs, etc>)

Just for fun and so I can get some perspective if the rules changed to get rid of balls screens at developmental levels, how would you like the rule worded/structured?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Just looking for some feedback.

Our middle school leagues are discussing some rule adjustments. Currently the only major deviations from FIBA rules is the length of quarters (7.5 min) and a no zone rule. (The no zone rule is to be called as a plugging the key call so you can zone press.)

One of the latest rule changes they are discussing is to eliminate ball screens. They have asked officials if we were to try and remove ball screens from the game how would we call it. Would we want it to be a foul, violation, etc. Since we would enforce it how would we want it called? Then we get into screens that act as ball screens (dribble attacking at a cutter, hand offs, etc>)

Just for fun and so I can get some perspective if the rules changed to get rid of balls screens at developmental levels, how would you like the rule worded/structured?

PantherDreams:

I have never heard the term: "ball screen". Please describe it. It sounds to me like this is something that should be encouraged not discouraged.

While I have always been a propenent of players learning how to play man-to-man defense before they learn how to play zone, I really do not like rules that prohibit the use of zones; the rule is just too dificult to enforce.

MTD, Sr.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

PantherDreams:

I have never heard the term: "ball screen". Please describe it. It sounds to me like this is something that should be encouraged not discouraged.

MTD, Sr.

Simply a screen set for the player with the ball.

I agree that it should not be discouraged. It is a fundamental offensive play. Can you imagine basketball without the pick-and-roll? I know coaches that go crazy getting their younger players to learn the concept of screening then rolling. Why would anyone want to disallow it?

[bainsey]

Any time you want to modify a rule, you should always ask what the intended goal of that change is. I'm having a hard time seeing the goal here.

There is never anything wrong with screening, as it's defined. Too many have confused this term with something else, though, and I find it unwise to install a rule against a perfectly legal act.

Screening, as defined by NFHS rules, an act where the screener doesn't cause contact. (See 4-40-1.) While contact may occur when the "screenee" bumps into the screener, that contact is typically incidental, which is legal. Why lobby for a rule against a legal act?

If a foul takes place during an attempted screen, call the foul. It's the fouls that should be discouraged, not the screens.

Teaching kids to screen properly is good basketball. I'd like to know more about the point of such a proposed rule change.

[Judtech]

I have been known to make up a rule or two in my time!! Recently as a matter of fact.....

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I have been known to make up a rule or two in my time!! Recently as a matter of fact.....

[JRutledge]

I hate it when leagues try to come up with cute ways to outlaw things that are legal in other parts of the game. All you get is confusion and inconsistent application. Leave the rules alone. Just play basketball for God's sake.

Peace

[just another ref]

Games involving players below jr. high, particularly participation leagues, (everybody plays regardless of talent level) need some adjustments from ordinary rules. If everyone knows and understands these adjustments, it shouldn't be a problem.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Games involving players below jr. high, particularly participation leagues, (everybody plays regardless of talent level) need some adjustments from ordinary rules. If everyone knows and understands these adjustments, it shouldn't be a problem.

I have worked many JR high and below levels in my career. Never was there a rules that were changed and for some strange reason, things were fine. And when I was a kid we did not have all these modifications. The only think I remember is we played at a shorter goal and all other rules we played.

Peace

[CLH]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I hate it when leagues try to come up with cute ways to outlaw things that are legal in other parts of the game. All you get is confusion and inconsistent application. Leave the rules alone. Just play basketball for God's sake.

Peace

AMEN!!! It's always amazing that parents expect that these kids are supposed to recognize these things they can't do when they don't even know what the thing they can't do even is! If that makes sense...lol...which is why you'll never see me on any of these courts!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have worked many JR high and below levels in my career. Never was there a rules that were changed and for some strange reason, things were fine. And when I was a kid we did not have all these modifications. The only think I remember is we played at a shorter goal and all other rules we played.

Peace

And sometimes a closer FT line for the youngest ages...about 10-12 feet instead of 15.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And sometimes a closer FT line for the youngest ages...about 10-12 feet instead of 15.

Our local kids rec league, which has been around for over 30 years, pretty much uses straight game rules (however, shorter quarters at upper grades, running clock at lower grades) with only a few exceptions. Little kids (3rd and 4th graders) shoot at 9 foot hoops. They also shoot free throws from a line two feet shorter (as do 5th graders) - we put a strip of adhesive tape on the floor for that. Of course we have mercy rules at all levels since this is a purely recreational league.

Years ago, we didn't allow zones or double teaming at 3rd and 4th grade but then we decided to allow those in exchange not allowing back court guarding at any time during the game. It seems to work fine. In fact, we used to have a rule to not allow back court guarding until the 4th quarter at 5th and 6th grade but it didn't work out and we eliminated it after just one season, so now they can back court guard the whole game except for the mercy rule. Our mercy rule has a larger point differential at the HS level than in 3rd-8th grades.

One thing we are considering for next season is going to running clock in all games. It has to do with the number of games we have and the amount of time we have to get all the games in, not anything else. Oh yeah - our league doesn't allow overtimes in 3rd and 4th grade games. Of course, I don't allow them at any level.

BTW - we use exactly the same rules for boys and girls leagues.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Years ago, we didn't allow zones or double teaming at 3rd and 4th grade but then we decided to allow those in exchange not allowing back court guarding at any time during the game. It seems to work fine. In fact, we used to have a rule to not allow back court guarding until the 4th quarter at 5th and 6th grade but it didn't work out and we eliminated it after just one season, so now they can back court guard the whole game except for the mercy rule. Our mercy rule has a larger point differential at the HS level than in 3rd-8th grades.

In one rec League, I make it my business to get together with both coaches together and the other official(s) prior to the games(s) and the conversation goes something like this:

Gentlemen, I'm Mr. G. and this is/are my partner(s) Mr. X. and Y. Players properly equipped? Sportsmanship at all times. Let us know if you want full or 30 sec TO's or you'll get fulls. Now, I do a lot of levels in a lot of different leagues, are there any specific rules for this game we need to be aware of?

At THAT point we'll talk pressure in the back court, three-point lines, mercy rules, ball needs to leave the shooters hand before moving into the lane, etc.

I really don't care what the rules are or how they differ, but the officials and the coaches are going to darn sure agree on what this game's rules are before we start the game. Helped me many a time, especially when you move directly from a U15 game to a U12 game (or something like it).