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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:38pm
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This situation has happened the last two times I have reffed with this official (he has 19 years exp to my one). I am the trail, he's the lead. A1, outside the 3 point line, takes B1 to the hole. I see B1 make contact with A1 on the shot which is a layup attempt. I can see the body contact and blow my whistle. The lead never blows his whistle (maybe because he wasnt going to call anything, or, I am too quick to blow mine). Both times he comments after the game, not directly but interjected into conversation, that I am making calls in his area (implication, let him make the call). In this situation, should I hesitate a bit to see if he calls, and if he doesn't, make the call myself (delayed whistles always draw moans from the crowd and the offending bench), or, do I call it as I see it?
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:46pm
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Hard to say without seeing it. If the players were able to play through the contact, then this might be a call that you don't have to make. Also, if you are L, this play is coming at you, so you might see something that he couldn't see from T, in this case you might have to go get it. Did you ask why they were passing? Getting a feel for advantage/disadvantage takes time. If you ask that question, you might get an answer that will help you look at plays in a different way. Be careful about getting too far out of your area. There's an experienced official I've worked with that that reached deep in my area to call a couple of shooting fouls. Both times he was wrong (ball then hand on a couple of shots). I try not to work with this guy anymore. If you're reaching to get a train wreck, go get it, but if it's a little nitpicky, you have to consider that maybe you don't have the best look at it.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:25pm
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Well said Junker.... If the play originates from my area on the drive and I am following it in I will sometimes take that call. Especially if the contact occurs in the paint. ts a tough one to make a comment about without actually seeing the play. Experiance makes all the difference.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:56pm
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I was taught if the play originates in my primary, I've got it. I, as trail, don't give up on a play just because it enters the paint on a drive to the basket. If I DON'T blow the whistle, and the Lead picks something up, that's cool. And if I call the defender for a foul where I can clearly see through the play, I don't expect the Lead to second-guess me.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 06:05pm
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Red face

Pre-game with your partner regarding coverage areas (eg., primary, secondary coverage, also the situation where shooter originates in your area, driving to the basket). Every partner is different, every game is different. I try to cover common situations in my pre-game, so we are on the same page. Also, be patient on your whistle. I like taking heat when the crowd or coaches complain over a late call. Better late, than not at all sometimes. Remember, you haven't done your job until the entire home crowd boos you at the same time, loud! Ha Ha.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 06:18pm
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this can be handled in pregame

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliOne
Pre-game with your partner regarding coverage areas (eg., primary, secondary coverage, also the situation where shooter originates in your area, driving to the basket). Every partner is different, every game is different. I try to cover common situations in my pre-game, so we are on the same page. Also, be patient on your whistle. I like taking heat when the crowd or coaches complain over a late call. Better late, than not at all sometimes. Remember, you haven't done your job until the entire home crowd boos you at the same time, loud! Ha Ha.
But the execution of it is the issue. We have discussed whose responsibility is what in previous conversations in pregames. however, when it comes down to the game and a fluid situation, you must rely on your reffing instincts (which includes learned mechanics and coverage responsibilities) to take over. I followed the play in both times. He must feel (based on his responses) that either I am embarrassing him by making the call, or, that I should not be following that play into the lane. My training and instincts tell me to follow the play into the lane. He does not concur. Looking for clarification.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 06:26pm
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I say as the trail you should take a player dribbling from your primary to the basket all the way to the basket. Yes, at the free-throw lane line, the dribbler crosses into the lead's primary, but if you've discussed it in the pre-game that shouldn't be an issue. The lead, in the theory of the old school, should have to move his focus to pick up that play, while you should then be moving yours at the same time. And right at the point of "impact" two officials are changing their focus.

In the new school theory, the officials don't change their focus at such a crucial moment.

I know some will say that "old school, new school" reference is not correct, but I've been offciating 16 years. It was just 2 years ago that I heard this philosophy become more wide-spread. I agree with it and would encourage you to work with your partners to use it as well. With a 20-year veteran on your team, it may take some time. It took me awhile to become comfortable with it.

The game, and our mechanics, are ever-changing. Keep working hard.

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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 07:09pm
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I guess you can call me "new school" then. I believe that if the drive originates in the T's primary, he should take it to the hole. He sees at the play from start to finish. Forcing the L to pick this up can leave him seeing only half the play. Now if a secondary defender steps in to help, the lead has that call all the way.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 08:04pm
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Everybody has posted great things. I like BITS's especially. You don't or shouldn't care if a crowd moans about a late whistle. I love them I think they are my best friend. If a player goes to the whole and the call is borderline and the ball goes in. No call. If it doesn't. Tweet and you shoot two. Knowing what contact is and is not a foul at different levels seperatest the whistle blowers from the refs.

As far as primary and secondary whistles go there is a cadence in how the whistles should sound. I just reread your post. I thought you were at Lead. You are trail, this play is yours to the hole so you should get first crack at it anyway. If this vet is going to get picky then just pick up his crumbs. This is how you do it:

Whistles should sound in cadence (like a one, two, not simultaneous most of the time). In the play you described it should be you, then him with the late whistle if he sees a foul, but that is ok let him have this play as his so called "primary" and when he doesn't blow it, just be patient enough so that you are the one with the late whistle.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 08:09pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by refTN
Everybody has posted great things. I like BITS's especially. You don't or shouldn't care if a crowd moans about a late whistle. I love them I think they are my best friend. If a player goes to the whole and the call is borderline and the ball goes in. No call. If it doesn't. Tweet and you shoot two. Knowing what contact is and is not a foul at different levels seperatest the whistle blowers from the refs.

As far as primary and secondary whistles go there is a cadence in how the whistles should sound. I just reread your post. I thought you were at Lead. You are trail, this play is yours to the hole so you should get first crack at it anyway. If this vet is going to get picky then just pick up his crumbs. This is how you do it:

Whistles should sound in cadence (like a one, two, not simultaneous most of the time). In the play you described it should be you, then him with the late whistle if he sees a foul, but that is ok let him have this play as his so called "primary" and when he doesn't blow it, just be patient enough so that you are the one with the late whistle.
I'm not very good yet at holding my whistle yet. Its instinctive to blow when I see something. I am working at letting things unfold for a fraction of or a second to see what happens. It's hard for my mind to work that way though...
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 11:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by lmeadski
I'm not very good yet at holding my whistle yet. Its instinctive to blow when I see something. I am working at letting things unfold for a fraction of or a second to see what happens. It's hard for my mind to work that way though... [/B]
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That's because it's your first year. At first you want to come out with your whistle blazing and you h ave a tendency to call everything. A patient whistle is a good thing -- and in this situation I'd give your partner first shot at it. If (s)he misses it -- and you are SURE (s)he misses it, blow it. Some guys are more possissive of their areas than others. I personally appreciate the help if I miss something but we all know guys who'll threaten to do bodily harm if you get in their area.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 12:29am
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I was taught that if the play was coming toward you, toward your primary the call was yours to make or pass on...unless it was on a fast break orginating from the back court then the trail would follow it in...is this correct?
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 06:48am
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Pre-game, Pre-game, Pre-game, with that being said yes it is your call to get. Comes from your area take it to the hole, but use some good judgement, a little contact and the ball goes in maybe a no-call is in order.

Just a thought!
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