2010-11 NFHS Rule Changes

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record the NF clarified the responsibly of the officials on this in football. In other words, if the player is back in the game from when we take them out of the game, it is assumed they have been reviewed by medical personnel. And in basketball it would be a lot easier to determine if a kid had some issues with a head injury as there is no helmet and there are fewer players on a team.

Peace

Here are the problems as I see them:1. A player hits the floor hard and takes awhile getting up and leaves the game. The player checks in at the table to return to the game but the officials don't let the player back into the game b/c they feel he/she is "concussed" (if that is a word, it is a cool one) The team with said player loses b/c their star is unable to return to the game b/c of the medical opinion of someone who is not trained to give a medical opinion. 2. Players collide with each other, but there is no apparent concussion. The player leaves the game, and when they return show "no signs symptoms etc" of concussion and finish the game. After the game, the player experiences headaches, nausea and vertigo and then is rushed to the hospital where he is found to have a severe concussion.
Again, very few if any officials are qualified to notice these things. How many medical/health things do we leave in the hands of the trainers/doctors yet when it comes to concussions WE have to make a determination? Can you imagine an official telling a player they can't wear that knee brace b/c that official doesn't think there really IS a knee problem? I will be asking several questions at our state meeting and if the season started today, probably not let ANY player who hit the floor hard and left the game come back in. As the saying goes "Better safe than sued!!"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Here are the problems as I see them:1. A player hits the floor hard and takes awhile getting up and leaves the game. The player checks in at the table to return to the game but the officials don't let the player back into the game b/c they feel he/she is "concussed" (if that is a word, it is a cool one) The team with said player loses b/c their star is unable to return to the game b/c of the medical opinion of someone who is not trained to give a medical opinion. 2. Players collide with each other, but there is no apparent concussion. The player leaves the game, and when they return show "no signs symptoms etc" of concussion and finish the game. After the game, the player experiences headaches, nausea and vertigo and then is rushed to the hospital where he is found to have a severe concussion.
Again, very few if any officials are qualified to notice these things. How many medical/health things do we leave in the hands of the trainers/doctors yet when it comes to concussions WE have to make a determination? Can you imagine an official telling a player they can't wear that knee brace b/c that official doesn't think there really IS a knee problem? I will be asking several questions at our state meeting and if the season started today, probably not let ANY player who hit the floor hard and left the game come back in. As the saying goes "Better safe than sued!!"

I would agree, but the clarification in football (where this is much more of a realistic concern) was that all we do is send them off. After that, we are not involved. So if a player comes back in, it is assumed that they have been checked out. The only issue is if the player is deemed to be unconscious as normal. Your state or any state can take a harder line on this and require more documentation, but as it stands from football, this will be really on the coaches. The wording that came out is the exact same as other sports so far, but the application was not made very clear. Now it was made clear in football and it appears we really are not involved. We just send off a player we think has a concussion and move on. I agree we are not the best people to determine this, but in basketball it is a lot easier to see a player cannot function. In a sport like football it is very hard and the same kind of hand-eye coordination is not the same or as obvious considering many players in football might not be around the ball.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would agree, but the clarification in football (where this is much more of a realistic concern) was that all we do is send them off. After that, we are not involved. So if a player comes back in, it is assumed that they have been checked out. The only issue is if the player is deemed to be unconscious as normal. Your state or any state can take a harder line on this and require more documentation, but as it stands from football, this will be really on the coaches. The wording that came out is the exact same as other sports so far, but the application was not made very clear. Now it was made clear in football and it appears we really are not involved. We just send off a player we think has a concussion and move on. I agree we are not the best people to determine this, but in basketball it is a lot easier to see a player cannot function. In a sport like football it is very hard and the same kind of hand-eye coordination is not the same or as obvious considering many players in football might not be around the ball.

Peace

I really don't see this as a big problem for officials either. The new wording states that "IF" they are sent off due to possible concussion concerns, they can not come back in unless cleared by medical personnel. I don't think it says anywhere that we have to be medical experts on concussions. But if I see a kid bang his/her head on the floor, get up and stagger around, I'm going to call the coach/trainer in and have them taken out of the game (same as I would have in previous seasons). Now, it's on the coach/school to have someone there to check them out and be the "medical personnel" who allows them back into the game.

[amusedofficial]

I'm not very bright, granted, but I think the begin-the-count clarification is useful. "at the disposal" is linquistically vague, although we alll have a pretty good idea what they mean. But some of us wait a half-chop either until the thrower has full possession or if it's an offensive end line throw-in, may hand the ball, take a step away and start. But then anyone who has split hairs over this has bigger problems than the rules committee can ever solve.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I really don't see this as a big problem for officials either. The new wording states that "IF" they are sent off due to possible concussion concerns, they can not come back in unless cleared by medical personnel. I don't think it says anywhere that we have to be medical experts on concussions. But if I see a kid bang his/her head on the floor, get up and stagger around, I'm going to call the coach/trainer in and have them taken out of the game (same as I would have in previous seasons). Now, it's on the coach/school to have someone there to check them out and be the "medical personnel" who allows them back into the game.

Well the wording did say that we were to identify concussion symptoms. It was not just the fact that we send them off; it was what information we went by to show that they were checked out properly. If a player is knocked unconscious, that player cannot come back in the game without a note from a MD or DO. This policy has no such standard and used a very vague term "Medical Personnel." That could be anyone just by the language. And it required officials verify who that person might have been. The NF clarified this a little more and I think partly was because the language they originally came out with was vague as to how we knew who was examining a player. And honestly, I have no problem sending a kid out that has an issue that is obvious. I do still have a problem with knowing someone has a concussion when so many of the symptoms are not "obvious." Of course it is easy to know what to do if players hit their heads together. But many concussion symptoms are not identified until much later. So if a player at first showed signs of a concussion and then came back in the game, it would be hard to know they were evaluated properly or who actually evaluated the issue. I know trainers that cannot say for certain a player has a concussion until they have been thoroughly examined by a doctor that even specializes in this kind of injury. It appears the NF has clarified their wording and basically puts more responsibility on coaches and schools for this kind of examination where it should be.

Peace

[Kelvin green]

How about we actually get some changes that would improve the game?

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would agree, but the clarification in football (where this is much more of a realistic concern) was that all we do is send them off. After that, we are not involved. So if a player comes back in, it is assumed that they have been checked out. The only issue is if the player is deemed to be unconscious as normal. Your state or any state can take a harder line on this and require more documentation, but as it stands from football, this will be really on the coaches. The wording that came out is the exact same as other sports so far, but the application was not made very clear. Now it was made clear in football and it appears we really are not involved. We just send off a player we think has a concussion and move on. I agree we are not the best people to determine this, but in basketball it is a lot easier to see a player cannot function. In a sport like football it is very hard and the same kind of hand-eye coordination is not the same or as obvious considering many players in football might not be around the ball.

Peace

Per IHSA, once we send a player off, we are responsible to send in a report to Bloomington, whether the player returns or not. Coach tells us when he returns.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ODJ

Per IHSA, once we send a player off, we are responsible to send in a report to Bloomington, whether the player returns or not. Coach tells us when he returns.

I would hold off on that until we get confirmation before the basketball season. They changed the policy in football twice and I would not be surprised if things that take place during the football season might make them rethink the policy or come up with another set of procedures.

Peace