Awarding points with time expiring.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Yesterday I received my October issue of Referee and immediately went to the basketball section. Here is Question 2 in the Test Yourself section (word enclosed in bracket ([]) are mine):

B1 rebounds a missed try by Team A with time winding down in the period. B1 throws
the ball from Team B’s backcourt toward their [his team’s] goal. The ball bounces [on
the floor] at the freethrow line and bounds toward the basket [Team B’s goal]. As the
ball is in the air after bouncing at the freethrow line, the horn sounds [signaling the end of
playing time] and the ball goes in the basket. Does the goal count? If so, how many
points are awarded?

a. The goal does count.
b. The goal does not count.
c. Two points are awarded.
d. Three points are awarded.

Referee’s answer for the play was a and b for both NFHS and NCAA Men’s and Women’s. The following Rules, Casebook Plays , Approved Rulings were cited:

NFHS: Rules: R5-S2-A1 Casebook: R5.1.1.
NCAA: Rules: R5-S1-A1, A.R. 1

Have I gone senile and therefore missed something about this play. b is the only correct answer for this play. I cite the following Rules, Casebook Plays, and Approved Rulings govern the play:

NFHS: Rules: R4-S40-A4 Casebook: R5.1.1(a)
NCAA: Rules: R4-S60-A3; R4-S65-A3; and
R5-S1-A1, A.R. 1(a)

This is an old play that can be found in many old NFHS and IAABO rules examinations. Please help a senile old geezer out guys and gals.

[Jurassic Referee]

Must be a typo,Mark.Referee has been wrong before,as you know.I agree with everything you say and cite.CB 5.1.1b is very explicit on it."B" is the only correct answer.

That's 2 senile,old geezers that agree

[mick]

That's 3

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mick

That's 3

Yep, that is 3, although I agree as well!

[Mark Dexter]

Sounds like a pretty big slip-up to me.

How can a goal count but not count?

[crew]

this is actually the correct ruling. the ball is live until it touches a player or the court after the the horn has sounded. i do not have books on hand but this is my rough memory of the play. what if the ball is rolling around the rim when the horn sounds after it has touched the floor? i would score the basket, and beleive this is the correct ruling.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by crew
this is actually the correct ruling. the ball is live until it touches a player or the court after the the horn has sounded. i do not have books on hand but this is my rough memory of the play. what if the ball is rolling around the rim when the horn sounds after it has touched the floor? i would score the basket, and beleive this is the correct ruling.

Nope.

For NF - 5.1.1.b (paraphrased here) A pass/tap/try bounces off the floor, horn sounds, and then the ball goes in. No points are scored. When the ball hits the floor, the try or tap ends. Then you simply have a pass or a loose ball, and the horn does make either of those dead.

NCAA rule 5 A.R. 1 states the same.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by crew
this is actually the correct ruling. the ball is live until it touches a player or the court after the the horn has sounded. i do not have books on hand but this is my rough memory of the play. what if the ball is rolling around the rim when the horn sounds after it has touched the floor? i would score the basket, and beleive this is the correct ruling.

No, no, no. If the ball is in the air on a shot, it would count. A shot that hits the floor and bounces is no longer a shot. Besides that, the REFEREE ruling says the shot is good and it isn't good. Explain that.

[Oz Referee]

FIBA agrees with the Yanks - the ruling for FIBA is the same - no basket.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Sounds like a pretty big slip-up to me.

How can a goal count but not count?

Good question, I was wondering the same thing.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Good question, I was wondering the same thing.

Like I said...typo.If (a) was an actual answer,it would also have had to be accompanied by either (c) or (d) to give a complete answer to the question.

I can't believe Referee is that clueless.This a pretty straight-forward,easy question.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
I can't believe Referee is that clueless.This a pretty straight-forward,easy question.

Never mind the clue-less-ness we've seen in various past legal actions...

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am just now checking my email and at 09:27amEDT today, I received a response from Keith Zirbel at Referee about Question 2. Referee's answer was incorrect and it will be corrected in a future issue.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Like I said...typo.If (a) was an actual answer,it would also have had to be accompanied by either (c) or (d) to give a complete answer to the question.

I can't believe Referee is that clueless.This a pretty straight-forward,easy question.

It happens all the time with them.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
[
I can't believe Referee is that clueless.This a pretty straight-forward,easy question.

It happens all the time with them. [/B][/QUOTE]

And people wonder why I am a member of officiating.com instead of Referee!