Was it a foul, or not?

[KMBReferee]

Hello guys. Long time lurker to this board. HS Ref from NC.

I wanted to get your opinions on what was a very controversial call from last night's OKC Thunder/ Utah Jazz game:

NBA admits missed foul call in Oklahoma City Thunder-Utah Jazz game Tuesday night - ESPN

Regardless of whether you think it was a foul or not, IMO the NBA basically hung their refs out to dry on what was a very borderline judgement call.

I know NBA officiating is tough, but damn...how can you work in an environment where you're subject to be hung out to dry in a moment's notice for the toughest of calls (or no-calls)?

Anyway, thank you for your responses in advance.

[APG]

Personally I thought it was a foul when I saw it live and was surprised that it wasn't call. The Thunder also defended the possession before this play horribly leaving Deron Williams wide open but I regress. Missed call, it happens...I'm sure Tony Brothers wishes he could have that one back.

As far as the NBA coming out and saying it was a missed call, that's the nature of the beast in professional sports. Same thing happened during the playoffs last year in both the NBA and MLB. The NFL is also known to comment publicly on controversial rulings.

[Mark Padgett]

Here's how your linked story read:

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The NBA announced Wednesday officials missed a foul in the final seconds of Utah's overtime victory over Oklahoma City the previous night.


Here's how the story should have read:

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The NBA announced Wednesday officials missed 114 travel calls in Utah's overtime victory over Oklahoma City the previous night.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Here's how the story should have read:

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The NBA announced Wednesday officials missed 114 travel calls in Utah's overtime victory over Oklahoma City the previous night.

C'mon Padgett......I've told you 1000 times not to exaggerate!

[bainsey]

Should it have been called a foul? Probably.

My questions are these: Would the NBA comment about a missed foul in the first quarter? If not, wouldn't those have been missed points that could affect the game's outcome?

If you're not going to comment about something that happened earlier in the game, then why do it at the end? To do otherwise is simply giving into emotion, and not sticking with consistency.

[APG]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Should it have been called a foul? Probably.

My questions are these: Would the NBA comment about a missed foul in the first quarter? If not, wouldn't those have been missed points that could affect the game's outcome?

If you're not going to comment about something that happened earlier in the game, then why do it at the end? To do otherwise is simply giving into emotion, and not sticking with consistency.

While as officials, the call early in the game is as important as the late one and we want to get every call correct no matter what, the simple reality is that to everyone else, this is simply not true unless it involves someone getting hurt/ejected. Of course a missed call in the 1st could result in missed points, but no one is going to remember that unlike a play like this. I'm not surprised to see the league offices comment on the play.

[Kelvin green]

With a controversial play that everyone sees on video, of course the league has to comment. What would happen if the league says no comment.

We all make mistakes, we all miss calls, we all try to justify it. learn from them and move on...

If you had a controversial play in a local association and one of us made a wrong rule interp that changed the complexion of the game do we need to be hung out? if there was an issue we need to acknowledge it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Should it have been called a foul? Probably.

My questions are these: Would the NBA comment about a missed foul in the first quarter? If not, wouldn't those have been missed points that could affect the game's outcome?

If you're not going to comment about something that happened earlier in the game, then why do it at the end? To do otherwise is simply giving into emotion, and not sticking with consistency.

With a missed call in the 1st Q, the team has plenty of opportunities to overcome it. Even if they surrender or miss out on a couple of points early in the game, they can adjust how they play in the future action. They have the chance to tailor their strategy to the situation.

With a missed call right at the end of the game, the team will not have the ability to recover in future game action and if the play happens right at the buzzer, as this one did, they have no chance to employ any sort of strategy to deal with it.

That's why it's different.

[KMBReferee]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

If you had a controversial play in a local association and one of us made a wrong rule interp that changed the complexion of the game do we need to be hung out? if there was an issue we need to acknowledge it.

The league has kept their mouths shut on plenty of controversial plays before. And this wasn't a rule interpretation; it was a judgement call. A call, I might add, that was so close that you had to have the camera zoom-in to see where contact was actually made. It wasn't as if it was displacement or a clear hold.

But I "understand" where that came from, as that apology was due to the politics within the NBA and a future superstar within the league, and not about the officials themselves.

[rsl]

It was a make up call, 12 years later...

Jordan pushes Russell 1998

Sorry, the fanboy in me comes out ocassionally. It won't happen again.

[deecee]

The reason this no call is huge is that it DECIDED the outcome of the game.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by deecee

The reason this no call is huge is that it DECIDED the outcome of the game.

Dude: smiley, blue font -- something?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

If you had a controversial play in a local association and one of us made a wrong rule interp that changed the complexion of the game do we need to be hung out? if there was an issue we need to acknowledge it.

Wrong rules interps and missed judgment calls are two completely different and disparate animals imo, and should be treated as such if you have to answer complaints about either.

I agree fully that any legitimate complaints that come into a local association should always be truthfully answered. I think that anyone responding to complaints on either a wrong rules interp or a missed judgment call should be right up-front. However the responses should be different. On a missed interp, you tell somebody that, yes, the official kicked the rule, has been told about it and it shouldn't happen again. On a missed judgment call, that's exactly what you should tell the complainant. You tell them that it appears that the official may have missed the call, but it was a judgment call...and as all officials are human, we will miss a judgment call now and then.

We should get the rules interps correctly; since we're human, we will miss the occasional judgment call though. And imo, we definitely shouldn't hang officials out to dry for a missed judgment call.

JMHO.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by deecee

The reason this no call is huge is that it DECIDED the outcome of the game.

There's the fallacy. When you look at it in total, the truth is, every call can decide the outcome of the game, especially in a close game.

Let's say a ruling like this took place within the first three quarters. Those are points a team can never get back, and that situation will affect the score at the end. While Nevada points out that players can "overcome" it, can they really? All they can do is move on and keep playing, and all we can do is move on and keep officiating, but players will never get those points back on that incorrectly called play. Errors will indeed happen, but don't con yourself into believing that they only matter in the end.

Just because people don't remember a (non-)call, doesn't mean it isn't what it is. A game is always decided in 32, 40, or 48 minutes, never just one.

(Aside to Jurassic: +1)

[bradfordwilkins]

Let's talk about the play from a learning perspective.

There are three things I notice in the play:

1) The slot gets completely straightlined --

2) His partner in the TRAIL needs to identify this and step down into the play more to get a cleaner look at the shooting arm that the slot normally would pick up.

3) Kevin Durant is one of the most prolific shooters in the league and the ball comes up 5 feet short -- even if you are "unsure" of whether there was illegal contact or not because of your angle, you can come in a little late and pick that up by watching the trajectory of the ball.