Unc/uri

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I saw the game on TV and rewound it over and over again. The "C" had the best look at it and was actually in the process of raising his hand. He gets it just to about his waist and lets it go then hustles off the floor. The big question is: Was he going up with a violation or a foul? Obviously the URI player had some nice sliding distance and most people would THINK travel.
My first reaction, prior to replay, and I am sure JR and others will jump on me, was a trip foul. Had he been able to keep his balance I think you have nothing, however, since the player went sprawling across the floor you have to ask yourself "How did the player end up on the floor?" Watching replay I see where there was a scrum and it looks like a URI player contacts a UNC player who in turns causes the URI ball handler to lose balance and hit the floor. The contact prior to all of that I would put down as loose ball incidental since no one was held or displaced. The UNC player tries to cut in front of the URI players, GREAT hustle, ends up going down and IMO knocks the URI dribbler off balance
SINCE I WASN"T THERE, I would really like to know what the C was going to go with before he stopped the hand. But that is just me, I'm curious like a cat!!!

Anyone who thinks "travel" on this isn't really paying attention. He never holds the ball.

And that prior contact is only incidental if you ignore all the contact. You can't call the foul on the UNC player here. He was displaced, right into the URI dribbler. It's incidental because the offensive contact simply caused a turnover, it didn't benefit the offense. My guess, since the C held his arm down, is he was going with a TC foul and decided it didn't need called there. Or, he was initially thinking of calling the trip, then replayed the events and realized the "tripper" was pushed into the ball handler.

[Judtech]

SNAQ I will agree that there is NO travel on that play. I was being facetious! However, I don't see how the contact prior to the UNC player tripping the URI player is anything but incidental. Again, from my original view and the replay IMO, this is a good loose ball hustle play by all. However, once the URI player hits the ground you have to ask how he got there. He got there b/c his feet were clipped by the UNC player who was diving on the floor. Now had the URI players been a little more assertive going after the lose ball and not letting the UNC player slip between them, I don't think any of this would have happened
Again, I would have loved to been a fly on the wall and listen to what the officials said about it afterwards. I can hopefully ASSUME he wasn't going with a travel, because then I would have HAD to criticize!!!!

[Adam]

Either they're both incidental, or you have to call the first one.

That initial contact isn't incidental because:
1. The players did not have equal positions.
2. The UNC player was displaced.

It is incidental because:
3. There was no advantage gained by the offense.

[mutantducky]

if a foul was called a blogger at yahoo would be whining about the horrible call.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Either they're both incidental, or you have to call the first one.

That initial contact isn't incidental because:
1. The players did not have equal positions.
2. The UNC player was displaced.

It is incidental because:
3. There was no advantage gained by the offense.

There is no way that the URI player committed a foul on this play. The URI player does not shove him at all. The UNC player was already diving for the ball, which makes him liable if he clips him, which he does. This should absolutely have been a tripping foul.

That should be a tripping foul all the time and it has been a POE the whole season.

If you would put your life on calling that mess vs. calling the tripping foul, careers don't last long calling the not so obvious vs. calling the blatant, out in the open, POE foul.

[APG]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

There is no way that the URI player committed a foul on this play. The URI player does not shove him at all. The UNC player was already diving for the ball, which makes him liable if he clips him, which he does. This should absolutely have been a tripping foul.

That should be a tripping foul all the time and it has been a POE the whole season.

If you would put your life on calling that mess vs. calling the tripping foul, careers don't last long calling the not so obvious vs. calling the blatant, out in the open, POE foul.

I'm going to have to agree here. I have the UNC player diving for the lose ball, missing it, and in the process tripping the URI player from behind.

Let's say there is a push though on the play, I think the official needs to come in with the call. You have illegal contact which caused another play to trip an opponent. You either have a team control foul (push) or you have a trip. I don't see how you can have neither.

[Raymond]

I don't see an OBVIOUS foul. Play happened fast--shot, rebound, change of direction.

Easy to disect with replay, not so obvious in real time.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't see an OBVIOUS foul. Play happened fast--shot, rebound, change of direction.

Easy to disect with replay, not so obvious in real time.

Sorry I have to disagree, I didn't need replay. My buddy said hey look at this play and I turn my head, see it once and said foul. easy tripping foul, and its even a POE. You could not be more supported. If they call that foul I guarantee you it would have been on the clips that John Adams will show at the beginning of next season showing officials following the POE guidelines, even at a crucial point in a game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I'm going to have to agree here. I have the UNC player diving for the lose ball, missing it, and in the process tripping the URI player from behind.

Let's say there is a push though on the play, I think the official needs to come in with the call. You have illegal contact which caused another play to trip an opponent. You either have a team control foul (push) or you have a trip. I don't see how you can have neither.

To me, you either have the team control foul or nothing. You can justify a no-call by the fact that there is clearly no advantage gained by shoving your opponent into your teammate causing your teammate to lose the ball. In fact, calling the foul gives an advantage to the fouling team by stopping the clock and forcing UNC to inbound the ball again.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

To me, you either have the team control foul or nothing. You can justify a no-call by the fact that there is clearly no advantage gained by shoving your opponent into your teammate causing your teammate to lose the ball. In fact, calling the foul gives an advantage to the fouling team by stopping the clock and forcing UNC to inbound the ball again.

Wouldn't you say a push in an opponent's back that causes him to trip a ballhandler is placing the pushed player at a disadvantage? If you really think there was a push there, I think you have to come in and get it. I doubt UNC is going to be angry that you stopped URI's potential fast break situation and gave them back the ball up one.

Just a question, say the offense didn't end up losing the ball. I'm guessing you'd come in with the foul then?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

There is no way that the URI player committed a foul on this play. The URI player does not shove him at all. The UNC player was already diving for the ball, which makes him liable if he clips him, which he does. This should absolutely have been a tripping foul.

That should be a tripping foul all the time and it has been a POE the whole season.

If you would put your life on calling that mess vs. calling the tripping foul, careers don't last long calling the not so obvious vs. calling the blatant, out in the open, POE foul.

No, he didn't shove him, he just pushed him. Even the still at the bottom of the blog, the 2nd video, clearly shows the URI player's hands on the UNC player. Accidental does not equal incidental. They may want that foul called on the defense in the NBE, but not in high school nor, I suspect, in college.