Unc/uri

[Adam]

Either they're both incidental, or you have to call the first one.

That initial contact isn't incidental because:
1. The players did not have equal positions.
2. The UNC player was displaced.

It is incidental because:
3. There was no advantage gained by the offense.

[mutantducky]

if a foul was called a blogger at yahoo would be whining about the horrible call.

[JRutledge]

I have no idea, I did not talk to the officials.

Peace

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Either they're both incidental, or you have to call the first one.

That initial contact isn't incidental because:
1. The players did not have equal positions.
2. The UNC player was displaced.

It is incidental because:
3. There was no advantage gained by the offense.

There is no way that the URI player committed a foul on this play. The URI player does not shove him at all. The UNC player was already diving for the ball, which makes him liable if he clips him, which he does. This should absolutely have been a tripping foul.

That should be a tripping foul all the time and it has been a POE the whole season.

If you would put your life on calling that mess vs. calling the tripping foul, careers don't last long calling the not so obvious vs. calling the blatant, out in the open, POE foul.

[APG]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

There is no way that the URI player committed a foul on this play. The URI player does not shove him at all. The UNC player was already diving for the ball, which makes him liable if he clips him, which he does. This should absolutely have been a tripping foul.

That should be a tripping foul all the time and it has been a POE the whole season.

If you would put your life on calling that mess vs. calling the tripping foul, careers don't last long calling the not so obvious vs. calling the blatant, out in the open, POE foul.

I'm going to have to agree here. I have the UNC player diving for the lose ball, missing it, and in the process tripping the URI player from behind.

Let's say there is a push though on the play, I think the official needs to come in with the call. You have illegal contact which caused another play to trip an opponent. You either have a team control foul (push) or you have a trip. I don't see how you can have neither.

[Raymond]

I don't see an OBVIOUS foul. Play happened fast--shot, rebound, change of direction.

Easy to disect with replay, not so obvious in real time.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't see an OBVIOUS foul. Play happened fast--shot, rebound, change of direction.

Easy to disect with replay, not so obvious in real time.

Sorry I have to disagree, I didn't need replay. My buddy said hey look at this play and I turn my head, see it once and said foul. easy tripping foul, and its even a POE. You could not be more supported. If they call that foul I guarantee you it would have been on the clips that John Adams will show at the beginning of next season showing officials following the POE guidelines, even at a crucial point in a game.

[fullor30]

The floor is open for discussion.

SCACCHoops.com: Video: Controversial End To UNC/Rhode Island


Sorry, just saw this link was already posted.

Take a look at Williams at end of first video. To me, he's almost expecting a call and body language seems to say "whew".

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Sorry I have to disagree, I didn't need replay. My buddy said hey look at this play and I turn my head, see it once and said foul. easy tripping foul, and its even a POE. You could not be more supported. If they call that foul I guarantee you it would have been on the clips that John Adams will show at the beginning of next season showing officials following the POE guidelines, even at a crucial point in a game.

More of your pro "favor the offense" philosophy/training coming through.

Now if what you have written were true, shouldn't the play show up on the NCAA video for next season whether it was whistled or not?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

There is no way that the URI player committed a foul on this play. The URI player does not shove him at all. The UNC player was already diving for the ball, which makes him liable if he clips him, which he does. This should absolutely have been a tripping foul.

That should be a tripping foul all the time and it has been a POE the whole season.

If you would put your life on calling that mess vs. calling the tripping foul, careers don't last long calling the not so obvious vs. calling the blatant, out in the open, POE foul.

No, he didn't shove him, he just pushed him. Even the still at the bottom of the blog, the 2nd video, clearly shows the URI player's hands on the UNC player. Accidental does not equal incidental. They may want that foul called on the defense in the NBE, but not in high school nor, I suspect, in college.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I'm going to have to agree here. I have the UNC player diving for the lose ball, missing it, and in the process tripping the URI player from behind.

Let's say there is a push though on the play, I think the official needs to come in with the call. You have illegal contact which caused another play to trip an opponent. You either have a team control foul (push) or you have a trip. I don't see how you can have neither.

To me, you either have the team control foul or nothing. You can justify a no-call by the fact that there is clearly no advantage gained by shoving your opponent into your teammate causing your teammate to lose the ball. In fact, calling the foul gives an advantage to the fouling team by stopping the clock and forcing UNC to inbound the ball again.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

To me, you either have the team control foul or nothing. You can justify a no-call by the fact that there is clearly no advantage gained by shoving your opponent into your teammate causing your teammate to lose the ball. In fact, calling the foul gives an advantage to the fouling team by stopping the clock and forcing UNC to inbound the ball again.

Wouldn't you say a push in an opponent's back that causes him to trip a ballhandler is placing the pushed player at a disadvantage? If you really think there was a push there, I think you have to come in and get it. I doubt UNC is going to be angry that you stopped URI's potential fast break situation and gave them back the ball up one.

Just a question, say the offense didn't end up losing the ball. I'm guessing you'd come in with the foul then?

[Jurassic Referee]

I'd say that if experienced and knowledgable posters can't even come close to a consensus as to whether a foul should or should not have been called, even after viewing repeated replays, it's kinda tough to fault the officials for not calling anything on this play.

In real life, when in doubt, no whistle.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'd say that if experienced and knowledgable posters can't even come close to a consensus as to whether a foul should or should not have been called, even after viewing repeated replays, it's kinda tough to fault the officials for not calling anything on this play.
...

Exactly. If after disecting the play in slow motion we still have varying views on the play how can anyone say that the play in real time is "obvious" in either direction?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Wouldn't you say a push in an opponent's back that causes him to trip a ballhandler is placing the pushed player at a disadvantage? If you really think there was a push there, I think you have to come in and get it. I doubt UNC is going to be angry that you stopped URI's potential fast break situation and gave them back the ball up one.

Just a question, say the offense didn't end up losing the ball. I'm guessing you'd come in with the foul then?

In real time, hard to say. Honestly, the way I see the video, that's what the C appears to be doing when his arm starts to go up. He seems to withdraw when A1 loses the ball. I'd love to pick his brain on that play.