How much can you do in 0.7 seconds???

[Berkut]

Team A is down by a point or two.

There is 0.7 left on the clock.

A1 inbounds to A2, who is in the backcourt with his back to the basket.

A2 receives the pass, turns, dribbles, then heaves up a 3/4s court shot.

Ball leaves his hand before the buzzer sounds, basket is made, A wins.

Now - the question here is - can an official dis-allow the basket on *any* basis? It isn't a case where there is a "by rule" cannot get a shot off, obviously. In this case, I don't know if it was legit - supposedly people have said that

A. There was 0.0 on the clock, but the horn had not sounded, and
B. The timer did not start the clock the moment A2 got the ball.

I don't know if either of those things are true though.

However, lets assume for the sake of argument that both of those things ARE true.

1. Should whoever is making this call be going by the clock, or the horn? What if the clock is not really readily visible? What if it is readily visible - does that change the answer to the question?
2. If you have reason to think the timer did not properly start the clock, but do NOT have definite knowledge, can you do anything? What if it is even more clear - say there is 0.5 seconds, and A2 actually takes even more time, but the clock operator does not start the clock?
3. Once the call is made - is there any recourse? Lets say the covering official signals a good basket based on not hearing the horn before the ball was gone, but afterward realizes (maybe with the help of his partners) that there was no way the player could have gotten the shot off, or realizes that while the horn had not gone off, there was 0.0 on the clock. In other words, depending on the answers to 1&2 above, can the official change his call after it is made if he is given additional information?

High school rules of course.

[Adam]

1. The horn rules here, not the clock. 0.0 seconds could mean anywhere from 0.01 to 0.09 seconds.
2. Without definite knowledge, you can't do anything.
3. See #2.

With .7 left, nothing you can do. There is no way my internal clock can be accurate enough to overrule the clock operator if he's even close to starting the clock correctly.

With either .5 or .7 seconds, as the administering official, I'll count to one second after the clock should start. After a second, I'll kill it, because I will have had definite knowledge.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Team A is down by a point or two.

You should fix the score before you do anything else. Maybe they're down by 1 1/2?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

You should fix the score before you do anything else. Maybe they're down by 1 1/2?

In the OP the game is over with if they make or miss the basket (it's a 3 pt-er)...no fear of OT Mark

-Josh

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by jdmara

In the OP the game is over with if they make or miss the basket (it's a 3 pt-er)...no fear of OT Mark

-Josh

Actually, in the actual game I guess B had just tied the game with a pair of free throws, so you can see why the basket was counted!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Tim Donaghy

You should fix the score before you do anything else. Maybe they're down by 1 1/2?

I didn't know that Donaghy was a Forum member?

[BillyMac]

Don't forget about the red lights. If they're available, I believe that they "trump" the horn.

Also, make sure that the horn is set on automatic. I've had several games over twenty-nine years in which the clock said, "0:00", and there was no horn, because the automatic horn was off.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I didn't know that Donaghy was a Forum member?

He was pictured in a thread here a few days ago.

[Tio]

NCAA rules state that with 0.3 on the clock or less, a team can only score on a tap.

5.4

"In any period, when the game clock displays 10ths of seconds and play
is to be resumed by a throw-in or a free throw when 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the game clock, a player may not gain possession of the ball and try for a field goal. Such player can only score a field goal by means of a tap of the pass or of a missed free throw."

So... if a player doesn't tap the ball and scores, by rule the basket does not count.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

NCAA rules state that with 0.3 on the clock or less, a team can only score on a tap.

5.4

"In any period, when the game clock displays 10ths of seconds and play
is to be resumed by a throw-in or a free throw when 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the game clock, a player may not gain possession of the ball and try for a field goal. Such player can only score a field goal by means of a tap of the pass or of a missed free throw."

So... if a player doesn't tap the ball and scores, by rule the basket does not count.

NFHS is the same, but it doesn't apply to .7 seconds.

[Tio]

True, true... but to respond to the initial poster's question... what can happen in 0.7.... is a lot if you have a 1 possession game.

[Gargil]

IMO you can catch and shoot with 0.7 seconds no dribble, no pivot. I was always told that you can get 1 dribble for every second on the clock. I have no rules reference to back it up, just an opinion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Gargil

IMO you can catch and shoot with 0.7 seconds no dribble, no pivot. I was always told that you can get 1 dribble for every second on the clock. I have no rules reference to back it up, just an opinion.

And it's a fine opinion, you just don't have rules backing to enforce the opinion.

[ronny mulkey]

In other words, depending on the answers to 1&2 above, can the official change his call after it is made if he is given additional information?

High school rules of course.[/QUOTE]

Berkut,

We pre-game that even if the last second shot is your responsibility, WE reserve the right to come to you with additional info if WE definitely know that you had your head up your a$$. At that point, WE would expect you to change your decision.

Obviously, we are discussing situations that are not maybee's or closee's. I have seen refs that "forgot" that they had last second shot and when the horn went off, they were actually looking off ball for a change. You want to at least come together and discuss obvious mistakes in these situations.

Mulk