Hand part of ball

[Nagy0716]

at what point do we penalize the defense on this?? just have been hearing different opinions on this..

thanks..

[just another ref]

10-6-2: A player shall not contact an opponent with his hand unless such contact is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball.

[AKOFL]

do we allow it on a shot?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

do we allow it on a shot?

Why not?

As I recall, nothing under 10-6 gives special consideration to a shooter when describing what constitutes a foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

do we allow it on a shot?

Does the rule state not to?

[BillyMac]

It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler or a shooter on that player's hand that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul, no matter how loud it sounds or how much it hurts.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler or a shooter on that player's hand that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul, no matter how loud it sounds or how much it hurts.

And the key word is "accidentally". It is a judgment call though.

Personally, not being able to read minds, I can't ever be 100% sure if a defender deliberately whacked an offensive player on the hand while that hand was on the ball. And seeing that I was taught very early not to call anything that I wasn't really sure of, I give the benefit of the doubt to the defender.

And in my experience, that's the way that the play is generally/universally called also.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler or a shooter on that player's hand that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul, no matter how loud it sounds or how much it hurts.

In one of our playoff games this season, my crew got sent to a small school. The visiting school, Snaqwell's alma mater as a matter of fact, was getting beat badly. In the second half, a player from the winning team gambled for a steal, came across the offensive players hand with a loud slap, and ended up over-running the offinsive player by 10 feet, giving the offense an uncontested layup. Some well informed fan was all over me for 2 possessions about "hearing the slap clear up here". Personally, I thought they'd rather have a lay up and 2 points than inbounding the ball again and facing another (potential) turnover, they had plenty on the evening.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

In one of our playoff games this season, my crew got sent to a small school. The visiting school, Snaqwell's alma mater as a matter of fact, was getting beat badly. In the second half, a player from the winning team gambled for a steal, came across the offensive players hand with a loud slap, and ended up over-running the offinsive player by 10 feet, giving the offense an uncontested layup. Some well informed fan was all over me for 2 possessions about "hearing the slap clear up here". Personally, I thought they'd rather have a lay up and 2 points than inbounding the ball again and facing another (potential) turnover, they had plenty on the evening.

Sadly, it's possible that I know this fan. Or did at one time anyway.

[Juulie Downs]

So how much "benefit of the doubt" do we give for this? Two gray areas:

1. Dribbler's or shooter's hand is actually off the ball, but the action of the defender pushes the hand back into contact... At what distance from the ball does the handler's hand have to be?

2. What part of the hand? if defender gets her fingers down onto the hand of the handler, but defender's palm makes contact with the wrist, is that legal?

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Sadly, it's possible that I know this fan. Or did at one time anyway.

The players and coaches were great, most of the fans were fine as well. There was just one really loud guy....well, we all know that guy. I think he follows all of us to every gym.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

The players and coaches were great, most of the fans were fine as well. There was just one really loud guy....well, we all know that guy. I think he follows all of us to every gym.

Oh, I know him, just surprised he was there. His kids graduated in the 90's.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And the key word is "accidentally". It is a judgment call though.

Personally, not being able to read minds, I can't ever be 100% sure if a defender deliberately whacked an offensive player on the hand while that hand was on the ball. And seeing that I was taught very early not to call anything that I wasn't really sure of, I give the benefit of the doubt to the defender.

And in my experience, that's the way that the play is generally/universally called also.

I agree with everything you said JR. All but the part about the way the play is called. I have seen many officials call this a foul just by sound alone. I was aware of the rule before I asked the question. Just looking for some thoughts from others. Along the lines of Jullies comments

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

So how much "benefit of the doubt" do we give for this? Two gray areas:

1. Dribbler's or shooter's hand is actually off the ball, but the action of the defender pushes the hand back into contact... At what distance from the ball does the handler's hand have to be?

2. What part of the hand? if defender gets her fingers down onto the hand of the handler, but defender's palm makes contact with the wrist, is that legal?

Not really gray areas imo....

1) Any distance. To have the exception apply, the hand must be on the ball as the rule states. Of course, during a dribble that determination can be iffy. Soooooo, call it the same way that you make other borderline calls----> if you aren't completely sure that the hand is on or off the ball, don't make a call.

2) The exception only covers the hand, not the wrist. Therefore if they get the wrist or part of the wrist, foul by rule. And again, if it's close as to whether the defender actually did get part of the wrist, only call the foul if you're completely sure that they did.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Not really gray areas imo....

1) Any distance. To have the exception apply, the hand must be on the ball as the rule states. Of course, during a dribble that determination can be iffy. Soooooo, call it the same way that you make other borderline calls----> if you aren't completely sure that the hand is on or off the ball, don't make a call.

2) The exception only covers the hand, not the wrist. Therefore if they get the wrist or part of the wrist, foul by rule. And again, if it's close as to whether the defender actually did get part of the wrist, only call the foul if you're completely sure that they did.

agreed