The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:23pm
Travel, Offside & Strike!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 111
Man, I have a lot to learn.....

Last BV game of the season, I'm working with two of our senior ( 20+ year) V officials, already a slight case of the nerves,

We get into the ref's room before the game and our R suddenly tells me that we're switching things up tonight, and I was going to give the pregame, conduct the meetings, and toss. Talk about getting caught unawares...

I stumbled through pregame as best as I could, ( I never know what to say to officials that have been doing this for years and years, and me in my sophomore season). Basically, we talked about the two teams, one that I had had a couple of games with earlier this year, one that I had not seen. I brought up having good eye contact at dead balls, and making sure we were all on the same page as far as FT lane coverage. Just glad they didn't laugh....

Meetings & toss, no problem... then

I'm L, & called a block midway through the first, basket counted ( nope, didn't look up, but looked at T and he indicated good), and added one shot. I go to report the foul, the T is right there asking who my shooter was. ( yeah, I should've had it, and vowed that I would if I got asked again.) Come to find out later on, I had called across the lane and my C had whistled as well. ( so much for my good eye contact at a dead ball) He went ahead and let me have the foul then, and was nice about it during half time meeting, but said that I had poached... Ay,yi yi..

Second quarter, pretty basic. No quizzes, I thnk they felt sorry for me..

Halftime, we talk about the double whistle, and my poach...

About 3:30 left in third, we're at a full TO. R comes to me and asked me the "status" of the game; score, time left, foul counts, anybody with foul problems... I got fouls and approx. time left, missed score by a few, and had no clue about players in foul trouble. Talk about red faced....

Fourth quarter, C calls a foul, and sure enough, my R is there asking me who the shooter was to be. This time I had it, and confidently reported.

Both guys were very gracious and congratulated me on a good game after wards, but I left there tonight feeling like a true blue rookie. I have a long ways to go...... but I hope to get there someday.

Oh well, one more GJV Thursday, a week and a half off, then on to girl's soccer.
__________________
Reffin' in the Rockies
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:31pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by shavano View Post

Meetings & toss, no problem... then

I'm L, & called a block midway through the first, basket counted ( nope, didn't look up, but looked at T and he indicated good), and added one shot. I go to report the foul, the T is right there asking who my shooter was. ( yeah, I should've had it, and vowed that I would if I got asked again.) Come to find out later on, I had called across the lane and my C had whistled as well. ( so much for my good eye contact at a dead ball) He went ahead and let me have the foul then, and was nice about it during half time meeting, but said that I had poached... Ay,yi yi..
Imperfect, certainly, but if this is your one mistake in the game, you're ok.


Quote:

.......had no clue about players in foul trouble.

Some of us think that this is not information that we should make a point of having.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 164
What exactly is the benefit of an official knowing which players might be in foul trouble?
__________________
Paul LeBoutillier
Ontario, Oregon
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:40pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul LeBoutillier View Post
What exactly is the benefit of an official knowing which players might be in foul trouble?
Some will say the awareness that a player will be disqualified on his next foul is valuable because they are immediately ready to proceed with the disqualification and the chance of this player improperly being allowed to stay in the game is greatly diminished.

To this I say

Others say when a player, particularly a "star" player has early foul trouble, we should be careful not to give him a "cheap one" or to make sure each foul is a "good one" or some other such nonsense.

I say this is not worthy of response.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 12:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,274
What I would tke away from this

1) you should ready to be a lead ref at every game. You either lead, follow or get out of the way.... f you want to excel you need to be able to lead.

Be prepare to be the lead ref all the time, You should know how to do a pregame. Pregames dont change much since guys have not worked with each other cover a lot of the same things.

2) Game management--- Game awareness are importatnt
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 12:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by shavano View Post
Last BV game of the season, I'm working with two of our senior ( 20+ year) V officials, already a slight case of the nerves,

We get into the ref's room before the game and our R suddenly tells me that we're switching things up tonight, and I was going to give the pregame, conduct the meetings, and toss. Talk about getting caught unawares...

I stumbled through pregame as best as I could, ( I never know what to say to officials that have been doing this for years and years, and me in my sophomore season). Basically, we talked about the two teams, one that I had had a couple of games with earlier this year, one that I had not seen. I brought up having good eye contact at dead balls, and making sure we were all on the same page as far as FT lane coverage. Just glad they didn't laugh....

Meetings & toss, no problem... then

I'm L, & called a block midway through the first, basket counted ( nope, didn't look up, but looked at T and he indicated good), and added one shot. I go to report the foul, the T is right there asking who my shooter was. ( yeah, I should've had it, and vowed that I would if I got asked again.) Come to find out later on, I had called across the lane and my C had whistled as well. ( so much for my good eye contact at a dead ball) He went ahead and let me have the foul then, and was nice about it during half time meeting, but said that I had poached... Ay,yi yi..

Second quarter, pretty basic. No quizzes, I thnk they felt sorry for me..

Halftime, we talk about the double whistle, and my poach...

About 3:30 left in third, we're at a full TO. R comes to me and asked me the "status" of the game; score, time left, foul counts, anybody with foul problems... I got fouls and approx. time left, missed score by a few, and had no clue about players in foul trouble. Talk about red faced....

Fourth quarter, C calls a foul, and sure enough, my R is there asking me who the shooter was to be. This time I had it, and confidently reported.

Both guys were very gracious and congratulated me on a good game after wards, but I left there tonight feeling like a true blue rookie. I have a long ways to go...... but I hope to get there someday.

Oh well, one more GJV Thursday, a week and a half off, then on to girl's soccer.
Since you were the referee, why were you not asking all these questions?
__________________
A Double Bonus is not really double.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 12:55am
Travel, Offside & Strike!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant View Post
Since you were the referee, why were you not asking all these questions?
As stated in the thread title, I still have a LOT to learn.
__________________
Reffin' in the Rockies
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 12:56am
Travel, Offside & Strike!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin green View Post
What I would tke away from this

1) you should ready to be a lead ref at every game. You either lead, follow or get out of the way.... f you want to excel you need to be able to lead.

Be prepare to be the lead ref all the time, You should know how to do a pregame. Pregames dont change much since guys have not worked with each other cover a lot of the same things.

2) Game management--- Game awareness are importatnt
Good points, both. Thank you!
__________________
Reffin' in the Rockies
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 01:11am
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 794
I'll sometimes check who is in foul trouble in the 4th. I don't like giving cheap fouls and the advantage is on a questionable that could go either way give it too a teammate. But there are problems with that. Star player with 4 fouls does a little grab and push to get a rebound. Minor foul but it allowed him to get the ball. Called a traveling call a few seconds after and it was but passing on a foul, albeit a cheap one helped his team.
in a different game I also fouled out a good player with a double foul when he and the defensive player were pushing each other in the post. Afterwards I thought I should have let it go. Good call in the first half but not in the last five minutes. It is a fine line to walk there so I suggest you don't go overboard about seeing who is in foul trouble because it just might change the way you call the game. You don't want to foul someone out with a cheap foul but if you have to so be it otherwise you could give a team an advantage.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 01:24am
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
I'll sometimes check who is in foul trouble in the 4th. I don't like giving cheap fouls and the advantage is on a questionable that could go either way give it too a teammate. But there are problems with that. Star player with 4 fouls does a little grab and push to get a rebound. Minor foul but it allowed him to get the ball. Called a traveling call a few seconds after and it was but passing on a foul, albeit a cheap one helped his team.
in a different game I also fouled out a good player with a double foul when he and the defensive player were pushing each other in the post. Afterwards I thought I should have let it go. Good call in the first half but not in the last five minutes. It is a fine line to walk there so I suggest you don't go overboard about seeing who is in foul trouble because it just might change the way you call the game. You don't want to foul someone out with a cheap foul but if you have to so be it otherwise you could give a team an advantage.

You did all that yet you try not to go overboard?
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 01:31am
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 794
that's what I've learned and not to repeat those mistakes. and I'm saying it can be good to know the foul situations because in the double foul case I should have passed on it. I didn't know the player had 4 fouls. In the one I passed on I did know he had 4. So goes both ways. Now maybe a check but I want to make sure no big change in how I'm calling the game.

Last edited by mutantducky; Wed Feb 17, 2010 at 01:34am.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 08:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by shavano View Post
Last BV game of the season, I'm working with two of our senior ( 20+ year) V officials, already a slight case of the nerves,

We get into the ref's room before the game and our R suddenly tells me that we're switching things up tonight, and I was going to give the pregame, conduct the meetings, and toss. Talk about getting caught unawares...
Your more experienced partners may have been doing you a huge favor in giving you this responsibility. They may have been sending a message to the coaches that you are worthy of running this game, assuming they have never seen you before. I had a very esteemed member of my last association do this as a regular practice with new partners. I appreciated it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shavano View Post
About 3:30 left in third, we're at a full TO. R comes to me and asked me the "status" of the game; score, time left, foul counts, anybody with foul problems... I got fouls and approx. time left, missed score by a few, and had no clue about players in foul trouble. Talk about red faced....
Again they were doing you a big favor here. These are (mostly) things you should be aware of throughout the game for your game management skills.

Sounds like you had a great experience. Take these things and build on them for each game you work, varsity or not.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 11:32am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
1) I don't like giving cheap fouls and the advantage is on a questionable that could go either way give it too a teammate.

2) Star player with 4 fouls does a little grab and push to get a rebound. Minor foul but it allowed him to get the ball.

3) Good call in the first half but not in the last five minutes.
1) Here's a better idea. Don't call cheap and/or questionable fouls in the first place and you won't have to worry about this.

2) How can it be a minor foul if it allowed him to get the ball? Methinks you really don't understand the concept of using advantage/disadvantage

3) Are you serious?

To sum up, you don't believe in advantage/disadvantage or consistency in calling a game, but you do believe in calling cheap, questionable fouls as long as you can give it to a teammate and not to a player with 4 fouls.

Great advice!

Lah me.......

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Wed Feb 17, 2010 at 11:35am.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 12:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by shavano View Post

About 3:30 left in third, we're at a full TO. R comes to me and asked me the "status" of the game; score, time left, foul counts, anybody with foul problems... I got fouls and approx. time left, missed score by a few, and had no clue about players in foul trouble. Talk about red faced....

With the possible exception of the team foul counts, how relevant is it to commit any of these to memory in the third quarter?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 12:13pm
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,641
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
While I understand your question......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
With the possible exception of the team foul counts, how relevant is it to commit any of these to memory in the third quarter?
Good game management skills should be used throughout the game. It's not something you "turn on" with two minutes to go in the 4th quater.

JMO.
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
You'd think I'd learn by now fullor30 Basketball 0 Tue Nov 24, 2009 01:47pm
Learn by doing showbo Basketball 24 Sat Jun 27, 2009 08:41am
Where do they learn this? Junker Basketball 6 Fri Jan 26, 2007 01:05pm
Why Don't They Learn? dddunn3d Baseball 18 Wed Apr 12, 2006 05:45pm
What did you learn at camp? WhistlesAndStripes Basketball 14 Fri Jul 29, 2005 01:52pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1