Didn't See Shot Go In...

[MajorCord]

I'm trail (3 man crew). Play starts in my area and goes to the basket. I and one of my partners (lead) double whistle on the crash. We both came out with the same call (block). I take the call, go to report and indicate to the table "two shots", look back at my partners and indicate "two shots". Lead steps into the lane and indicates "two shots" to players. A1 shoots first shot, misses, and then A2 gets the rebound and puts the ball back in. Now everyone is confused. At this point, the table tells us that the shot went in on the foul, therefore we should have only been shooting one. I never saw it go in, the lead never saw it either. Call in the center official and he says that he didn't see it either. What do you do at this point?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MajorCord

I'm trail (3 man crew). Play starts in my area and goes to the basket. I and one of my partners (lead) double whistle on the crash. We both came out with the same call (block). I take the call, go to report and indicate to the table "two shots", look back at my partners and indicate "two shots". Lead steps into the lane and indicates "two shots" to players. A1 shoots first shot, misses, and then A2 gets the rebound and puts the ball back in. Now everyone is confused. At this point, the table tells us that the shot went in on the foul, therefore we should have only been shooting one. I never saw it go in, the lead never saw it either. Call in the center official and he says that he didn't see it either. What do you do at this point?

If the table says it went in, and none of you saw otherwise, I'd go with it.
CE on the FTs, go to the arrow for possession.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'd go with it.
CE on the FTs, go to the arrow for possession.

Which one (a) or (b)? At first glance, I'm not sure how to apply either one. You obviously are going with (a variant of) (b) but isn't that POI. Maybe it should be A's ball.

edited: . . . and points scored?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Which one (a) or (b)? At first glance, I'm not sure how to apply either one. You obviously are going with (a variant of) (b) but isn't that POI. Maybe it should be A's ball.

edited: . . . and points scored?

The putback after the missed free throw didn't happen. The ball was dead.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The putback after the missed free throw didn't happen. The ball was dead.

Is this how a CE is applied? If it is a CE, why does 2-10-5 not apply?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Which one (a) or (b)? At first glance, I'm not sure how to apply either one. You obviously are going with (a variant of) (b) but isn't that POI. Maybe it should be A's ball.

edited: . . . and points scored?

Originally Posted by just another ref

The putback after the missed free throw didn't happen. The ball was dead.

Yep, the only caveat is if all of the players ignored the officials' directive and played it as a one-shot foul. In that case, count the put-back and give B the ball for an end-line throw in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Is this how a CE is applied?

When the official says "two shots," the ball then becomes dead after it's clear it won't be successful.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yep, the only caveat is if all of the players ignored the officials' directive and played it as a one-shot foul. In that case, count the put-back and give B the ball for an end-line throw in.

Not even that in this case. The officials both said two shots, which says to me that they didn't count the basket. Two shots, at this point, was not erroneous information. When this free throw ended, the ball became dead.


I don't know what caveat is. Is that them little fish egg things?

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yep, the only caveat is if all of the players ignored the officials' directive and played it as a one-shot foul. In that case, count the put-back and give B the ball for an end-line throw in.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

When the official says "two shots," the ball then becomes dead after it's clear it won't be successful.

My bad. I read it as everyone went for the rebound and A2 got it and the put back.

This is the same as the classic 1-1 where the refs erroneously call 2 shots. I thought this was 2.10.1(J) when it was really 8.6.1 (b) I can't find a hole big enough to crawl into.

[representing]

I had the same exact situation happen earlier this year in a BJV game. This is what I was told by Varsity officials for the future situations:

Provided you blew the whistle dead before shot was made:

If all players went in to play the missed shot, then you would continue with an OOB given to whoever rebounded the ball.

If only one player went in to rebound the ball while the other stood around waiting for second shoot to be attempted (as had happened in my situation), then you go with the arrow.

I was told by Varsity officials that you should think of it as Advantage/Disadvantage. If one team clearly had advantage by the confusion, you go with arrow. If no one had clear advantage, you go with OOB to who rebounded the ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not even that in this case. The officials both said two shots, which says to me that they didn't count the basket. Two shots, at this point, was not erroneous information. When this free throw ended, the ball became dead.


I don't know what caveat is. Is that them little fish egg things?

Caveat = Case Play 2.10.1J

[Kelvin green]

3 person crew and no body saw the ball go in?where was c?

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

3 person crew and no body saw the ball go in?where was c?

When I was evaluating officials (2 Men System) I would tell them it was a Cardinal Sin to miss a made basket(or count a missed basket), I guess with 3 men its a Bishop Sin.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by representing

I had the same exact situation happen earlier this year in a BJV game. This is what I was told by Varsity officials for the future situations:

Provided you blew the whistle dead before shot was made:

If all players went in to play the missed shot, then you would continue with an OOB given to whoever rebounded the ball.

If only one player went in to rebound the ball while the other stood around waiting for second shoot to be attempted (as had happened in my situation), then you go with the arrow.

I was told by Varsity officials that you should think of it as Advantage/Disadvantage. If one team clearly had advantage by the confusion, you go with arrow. If no one had clear advantage, you go with OOB to who rebounded the ball.

Please!!!!

Read the rules book more and post less. Go regale a soccer board with your perverted sense of the rules. Move to an area where soccer is played year-round and devote yourself to it...

IOW, beat it!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Please!!!!

Read the rules book more and post less. Go regale a soccer board with your perverted sense of the rules. Move to an area where soccer is played year-round and devote yourself to it...

IOW, beat it!

OK, JAC, do tell us where he messed up this ruling if you're so sure he needs to read the book.