The Counters . . .

[Pantherdreams]

So we've got this team in our zone. High School boys playing FIBA rules. Coach is solid, players are nice kids if not great ball players. One of the teams strengths in they are one of the most vocal (team communication)teams in the area if not the most skilled.

Normally you go do a game. Coach is loud cheerleading demanding of his kids, kids are intense, loud, passionate. Never out of control but very vocal. Defensively the kid on the ball is always shouting out what the o is doing (dribble.dribble.dribble, pass, shot etc) kids off the ball talking to the on the ball defender etc. Lots of loud chaotic pressure on defense.

I preface all this because they added a new tactic to their repetiore last night and I want to get everyone elses feelings on it before I discuss my response.

The counting . . .

After their first made basket team starts defending full court man. Player on the ball and the bench start "1 . .. Deny Hard . .. 2 DENY HARD . . . 3 DENY HARD!!!! . . ." etc. As the ball gets entered the bench start "1 . . D-up . 2 D-up .. . 3 D- up . .4 D-up" I didn't think anything (duh) thinking its their hip version of my old school D-Fence until I realised when they reached 5 on the out of bounds they kept repeating "5 DENY HARDD!!!!" and in the front court at 8 its was repeating "8 D-UP!" In the half court they went back to their regular noisy defense.

Early in the 1st quarter when the crowd noise began to match the player noise my partner called me in to have a convo . . .

How would you handle this?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

So we've got this team in our zone. High School boys playing FIBA rules. Coach is solid, players are nice kids if not great ball players. One of the teams strengths in they are one of the most vocal (team communication)teams in the area if not the most skilled.

Normally you go do a game. Coach is loud cheerleading demanding of his kids, kids are intense, loud, passionate. Never out of control but very vocal. Defensively the kid on the ball is always shouting out what the o is doing (dribble.dribble.dribble, pass, shot etc) kids off the ball talking to the on the ball defender etc. Lots of loud chaotic pressure on defense.

I preface all this because they added a new tactic to their repetiore last night and I want to get everyone elses feelings on it before I discuss my response.

The counting . . .

After their first made basket team starts defending full court man. Player on the ball and the bench start "1 . .. Deny Hard . .. 2 DENY HARD . . . 3 DENY HARD!!!! . . ." etc. As the ball gets entered the bench start "1 . . D-up . 2 D-up .. . 3 D- up . .4 D-up" I didn't think anything (duh) thinking its their hip version of my old school D-Fence until I realised when they reached 5 on the out of bounds they kept repeating "5 DENY HARDD!!!!" and in the front court at 8 its was repeating "8 D-UP!" In the half court they went back to their regular noisy defense.

Early in the 1st quarter when the crowd noise began to match the player noise my partner called me in to have a convo . . .

How would you handle this?

So you're saying they're trying to influence your count? So what is the 8 count?

[Adam]

In FIBA, 8 count is our 10 second back court count.

Counting is unsporting, plain and simple. Tell them to stop. If they do it again, easy T. If the warning doesn't work, the T will.

[Pantherdreams]

Sorry FIBA rules . .. 24 -8. 24 second shot clocks, 8 seconds to get it over half.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In FIBA, 8 count is our 10 second back court count.

Counting is unsporting, plain and simple. Tell them to stop. If they do it again, easy T. If the warning doesn't work, the T will.

Agreed. No good can come from letting them continue.

[Adam]

Isn't it considered unsporting in FIBA for a defender to yell "shot" at a shooting opponent? How is this different?

[representing]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Sorry FIBA rules . .. 24 -8. 24 second shot clocks, 8 seconds to get it over half.

24 second shot clock? For high school ball? Why?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

24 second shot clock? For high school ball? Why?

Because it's FIBA. I think they're are based off of soccre roules.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Because it's FIBA. I think they're are based off of soccre roules.

I may be missing a joke here, but is that supposed to be soccer rules? What's soccer got to do with this?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

I may be missing a joke here, but is that supposed to be soccer rules? What's soccer got to do with this?

Yes, you're missing a joke about soccer, the preferred sport of most places who use FIBA rules for basketball.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yes, you're missing a joke about soccer, the preferred sport of most places who use FIBA rules for basketball.

ah ok. Did not know that.

I am a soccer official but I go by USSF/FIFA (rec and travel games) and NFHS (high school games). Will soon be doing local college soccer games.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

ah ok. Did not know that.

I am a soccer official but I go by USSF/FIFA (rec and travel games) and NFHS (high school games). Will soon be doing local college soccer games.

Then you're probably not going to get my soccre humour; which is predicated on a small amount of disdain.

[Camron Rust]

While I agree with all the points about it being unsporting, if they're saying all of that and get to 5 a 2nd and 3rd time, and you're not past five (understanding that you may have been ignoring your own count in response to their actions), your count is way too slow.

[Adam]

This is why I like officiating in high altitudes. The players have more important things to do with their oxygen.

[Pantherdreams]

So once the crowd got into the counting my partner took me aside . . .

He was very upset about and said we should demand the team stop or "T" them up each time it happened. My intial response in our private convo was that they could count to 1 million if they liked unless they started arguing the count I didn't care. We then discussed the inciting the crowd aspect and decided that we would in fact put a stop to it just because it couldn't go anywhere good for anyone.

Since I was in the more reasonable mood about it I approached the coach who must have known what was coming next.

Me - "Your players and the bench needs to stop trying to affect the officials count. I appreciate your enthusiasm but its not going to effect us and is just going to lead to issues with the crowd and both teams. If I hear it again the player responsible will be given a T and it will go to you if it comes from the bench."

Coach - "So we can't communicate on defense. We have stunts set after certain counts by our teammates and now your saying we can't call rotations from the floor or bench."

Me - " I hear what your saying but you and I both know what its really about and what its trying to accomplish. Its either trying to influence the official or rush/intimdate the opposition. So lets cut the counting!"

Coach - "Fair enough. I assume you''ll warn the other team too, and if you hear them counting down a shot clock or game clock that they'll be "T"'d up too if counting is now unsportsmanlike."

Me -" I'll treat them the same as you coach."

I walked away. THe counting stopped. Until the crowd got wind of it at half time. Then as the 2nd half started a group of supportive parents counted from 1 - 500 aloud while the game was going on.