Jay Bilas, a Lawyer?, He can not even read.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Someone from Nevada will be along to disagree with you....

It's like you're reading my mind.

[JRutledge]

This is a basketball fundamental. The whistle rarely causes the ball to become dead, it is already dead. And no I did not see the play, but if what I am reading is correct, then the official got it right.

Peace

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is a basketball fundamental. The whistle rarely causes the ball to become dead, it is already dead. And no I did not see the play, but if what I am reading is correct, then the official got it right.

Peace

Right...It doesn't matter when the whistle was blown. I've always been told it doesn't matter when the whistle blows, as long as the TO was requested at the right time.

[just another ref]

This rule still cries out for an editorial change. We need a definition of when the timeout is granted.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This rule still cries out for an editorial change. We need a definition of when the timeout is granted.

Where would the fun be in that?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Someone from Nevada will be along to disagree with you....

I don't know why you would say that. But, of course, it is true. I thought that Cahill kicked this one.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is a basketball fundamental. The whistle rarely causes the ball to become dead, it is already dead. And no I did not see the play, but if what I am reading is correct, then the official got it right.

The rules fundamental does say that, but you must know when that fundamental properly applies.

Originally Posted by bas2456

Right...It doesn't matter when the whistle was blown. I've always been told it doesn't matter when the whistle blows, as long as the TO was requested at the right time.

Does a time-out request make the ball dead? Do the rules say that as they do for a violation or a foul?
I don't believe so. In the case of a time-out it absolutely does matter when the whistle is blown.

Originally Posted by just another ref

This rule still cries out for an editorial change. We need a definition of when the timeout is granted.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by mutantducky

I was watching the game live and I thought it was way too late. However, and this has happened to me, perhaps the coach verbally called a TO and the ref simply did not recognize it right away(brain freeze) and blew the whistle but the ball was with UCONN.

That's what I see on the video replay on ESPN360.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1) Does a time-out request make the ball dead?

2)Do the rules say that as they do for a violation or a foul?

No, but granting the TO request does.
NFHS rule 5-8-3--"Time out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official grants a player/head coach's ORAL or visual request for a timeout, such request being granted only when the ball is in control of or at the disposal of a player of his/her team."
NCAA rules are exactly the same, I believe. By rule, the TO occurs when the official grants the TO request. So the sequence is TO request by coach---->granted by official if player on coach's team has player control. By rule, the clock is supposed to be stopped when the TO request is granted. What happens after the TO was granted is irrelevant in the play being discussed.

2) Basically yes, except that the official doesn't have to signal a granted TO request to stop the clock. The clock is supposed to stop when the TO request is granted instead. And that shoots your little theorem all t'hell, rules-wise.


Let me know if you can find some rules that will back up what you're saying.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, but granting the TO request does.
NFHS rule 5-8-3--"Time out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official grants a player/head coach's ORAL or visual request for a timeout, such request being granted only when the ball is in control of or at the disposal of a player of his/her team."
NCAA rules are exactly the same, I believe. By rule, the TO occurs when the official grants the TO request. So the sequence is TO request by coach---->granted by official if player on coach's team has player control. By rule, the clock is supposed to be stopped when the TO request is granted. What happens after the TO was granted is irrelevant in the play being discussed.

The problem is defining when the request is considered to be granted. Some say it is a mental event which occurs instantly when the request is seen/heard by the official. But some of these same officials say they give the coach the option to rescind the request if it comes too late to serve his purpose in a given situation. This is a conflict, in my opinion. Also, what if an official can hear a voice behind him, but the ball becomes dead before he turns to confirm the identity of the voice, is this one granted or not?

2) Basically yes, except that the official doesn't have to signal a granted TO request to stop the clock. The clock is supposed to stop when the TO request is granted instead.

I don't follow this part at all.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, but granting the TO request does.
NFHS rule 5-8-3--"Time out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official grants a player/head coach's ORAL or visual request for a timeout, such request being granted only when the ball is in control of or at the disposal of a player of his/her team."
NCAA rules are exactly the same, I believe. By rule, the TO occurs when the official grants the TO request. So the sequence is TO request by coach---->granted by official if player on coach's team has player control. By rule, the clock is supposed to be stopped when the TO request is granted. What happens after the TO was granted is irrelevant in the play being discussed.

And exactly how does an official "grant" a time-out? What specific action does the official take? Is it a mental decision or a physical act which grants the request?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) Basically yes, except that the official doesn't have to signal a granted TO request to stop the clock. The clock is supposed to stop when the TO request is granted instead. And that shoots your little theorem all t'hell, rules-wise.

Absolute doo-doo. One of the silliest things that you have ever written on this forum.
If the official doesn't signal the granting of a time-out request in some manner, how is anyone else, including the timer, supposed to know that it was done? The signal is very simple--the official blows the whistle. The rule for the duties of the timer (2-12-6) even states, ". . . Stop the clock at the expiration of time for each quarter or extra period, and when an official signals time-out, as in 5-8. For an intermission or a charged time-out, start the stopwatch and signal the referee as outlined in Article 5."

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Let me know if you can find some rules that will back up what you're saying.

You mean like the rule for when the ball becomes dead?
Let's try reading 6-7 and you tell me which one of these nine articles applies to the granting of a time-out. Please remember that these are the ONLY nine ways that a live ball can become dead under NFHS rules.

RULE 6
SECTION 7 DEAD BALL
The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
ART. 1 . . . A goal, as in 5-1, is made.
ART. 2 . . . It is apparent the free throw will not be successful on a:
a. Free throw which is to be followed by another free throw.
b. Free throw which is to be followed by a throw-in.
ART. 3 . . . A held ball occurs, or the ball lodges between the backboard and
ring or comes to rest on the flange.
ART. 4 . . . A player-control or team-control foul occurs.
ART. 5 . . . An official’s whistle is blown (see exceptions a and b below).
ART. 6 . . . Time expires for a quarter or extra period (see exception a below).
ART. 7 . . . A foul, other than player- or team-control, occurs (see exceptions
a, b and c below).
ART. 8 . . . A free-throw violation by the throwing team, as in 9-1, occurs.
ART. 9 . . . A violation, as in 9-2 through 13, occurs (see exception d below).