22 years, 1 blarge

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The block-charge preliminary signal (or verbalization) is only binding in this specific situation. That's it, that's the list. It's only binding because of this case play.

But the case play does not mention preliminary signals.........at all.

[Welpe]

There is only one solution...slap fight between the calling officials until a winner is declared.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There is only one solution...slap fight between the calling officials until a winner is declared.

Every bit as logical as a double foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But the case play does not mention preliminary signals.........at all.

No, you're right. So which of my previously noted options do you subscribe to?

Again, not a single official I've ever spoken to (on or off the board) aside from you believes this doesn't say you need to do a DF on this play.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No, you're right. So which of my previously noted options do you subscribe to?

Again, not a single official I've ever spoken to (on or off the board) aside from you believes this doesn't say you need to do a DF on this play.

I can only imagine it applying in your #2, and no, I can't imagine that they wrote a case play specifically for that purpose. But it is equally difficult for me to imagine that a case play was written to specify that one team should be penalized if the officials improperly use preliminary foul signals, and that this is true even though the case play in question does not actually mention preliminary foul signals.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I can only imagine it applying in your #2, and no, I can't imagine that they wrote a case play specifically for that purpose. But it is equally difficult for me to imagine that a case play was written to specify that one team should be penalized if the officials improperly use preliminary foul signals, and that this is true even though the case play in question does not actually mention preliminary foul signals.

So again: You keep saying what the case play doesn't apply to. In your opinion when do the rules makers want the rule applied to?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So again: You keep saying what the case play doesn't apply to. In your opinion when do the rules makers want the rule applied to?

Actually, JAR has answered that question. He envisions it applying when neither official will back down from a call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I can only imagine it applying in your #2, and no, I can't imagine that they wrote a case play specifically for that purpose. But it is equally difficult for me to imagine that a case play was written to specify that one team should be penalized if the officials improperly use preliminary foul signals, and that this is true even though the case play in question does not actually mention preliminary foul signals.

Fair enough, and as long as you're comfortable taking on the world with this....

As for me, I'll back the world.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I can only imagine it applying in your #2, and no, I can't imagine that they wrote a case play specifically for that purpose. But it is equally difficult for me to imagine that a case play was written to specify that one team should be penalized if the officials improperly use preliminary foul signals, and that this is true even though the case play in question does not actually mention preliminary foul signals.

Manual not readily available, but aren't PC and Blocks supposed to get a preliminary on the spot of the foul? And wouldn't that indicate a specific foul has been called? And how are you assuming "improper" use of preliminaries if the play were to happen in a dual coverage area, but the officials just had differing opinions?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Manual not readily available, but aren't PC and Blocks supposed to get a preliminary on the spot of the foul? And wouldn't that indicate a specific foul has been called? And how are you assuming "improper" use of preliminaries if the play were to happen in a dual coverage area, but the officials just had differing opinions?

I don't know what is in the manual, but is it not generally agreed that on a double whistle officials should withhold the preliminary signal for this very reason?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't know what is in the manual, but is it not generally agreed that on a double whistle officials should withhold the preliminary signal for this very reason?

Yes, but once the preliminaries are used, the fouls have been "called".

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Yes, but once the preliminaries are used, the fouls have been "called".

Is that in the manual?