Flagrant for Words

[Spence]

I'm curious as to your opinion as to what might constitute a flagrant T on a player who is having words with another player. No punches. Nothing physical. Is it as simple as the F word being used?

[representing]

Just heard this one about two weeks ago. A buddy of mine was doing a game where a few players knew Spanish in addition to English. Little did these players know that my buddy also knew Spanish. I think you know where this is going:

One of the players, during the game, said "you're an @$$hole" in Spanish to my buddy to which he responded, in Spanish "you're outta here!" (or something similar) after blowing his whistle and signaling a Technical. The player was shocked to see the referee knew Spanish but then just laughed at his own stupidity while walking to the bench.

[slow whistle]

"Yo mama!" Personally I can't see issuing a flagrant for words between players in a varsity game, but I'm sure others will disagree. Unless it was a turrets-like explosion of explatives, I don't think I would go flagrant on "f' you!" Certainly a T and a very short leash however.

[Raymond]

Threats of bodily harm.

Racial statements.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Threats of bodily harm.

Racial statements.

Agree with the above, was not thinking along these lines, but either would be flagrant.

[tw1ns]

threats of bodily harm - towards ME!!!

[FishinRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Threats of bodily harm.

Racial statements.

I agree 100%

Any Word or Action that could be perceived to invoke violence.

No Place For It In The Game Period.

Just dropping the F Bomb would normally warrant a good ole T

[fullor30]

Not to hijack thread, but a slight variation. Had a boys game last week and an F bomb came out not directed at anyone but in frustration over a missed shot. somewhat quiet, yet it caught my attention. break in action and I discreetly told him to watch language. I ignore if uttered under breath but this was getting up there in decibels.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Not to hijack thread, but a slight variation. Had a boys game last week and an F bomb came out not directed at anyone but in frustration over a missed shot. somewhat quiet, yet it caught my attention. break in action and I discreetly told him to watch language. I ignore if uttered under breath but this was getting up there in decibels.

I had a similar situation. Player upset with hmself for missing a bunny. Coach is berating him from the bench and he mutters to himself $h!t. I quietly walked up to him and said "You said shoot right?" He sheepishly grinned and said yeah. He got the point.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I had a similar situation. Player upset with hmself for missing a bunny. Coach is berating him from the bench and he mutters to himself $h!t. I quietly walked up to him and said "You said shoot right?" He sheepishly grinned and said yeah. He got the point.

I'm going to use that.........."you said duck, right"?

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Not to hijack thread, but a slight variation. Had a boys game last week and an F bomb came out not directed at anyone but in frustration over a missed shot. somewhat quiet, yet it caught my attention. break in action and I discreetly told him to watch language. I ignore if uttered under breath but this was getting up there in decibels.

Same way I handle it if not too loud.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I had a similar situation. Player upset with hmself for missing a bunny. Coach is berating him from the bench and he mutters to himself $h!t. I quietly walked up to him and said "You said shoot right?" He sheepishly grinned and said yeah. He got the point.

GV. I had a coach yell, "We're getting raped here!" I was sprinting past on a fast break (other team had the ball) so I shot one puzzled frown and kept running. Swung back around as the ball came back the other way, and his assistant said, "RaKKed! He said Raked!" I said, "Yea, I bet he did" but I never heard a peep out of either one of them through the rest of the game.

[Juulie Downs]

In reply to the OP, I agree with the part about threats of bodily harm, and racial statements. I would also like to add "offensive gender statements" to the list. A certain amount of teasing with regard to gender or sexual preferences is accepted among friends, but it must be absolutely zero between opponents, imo. Even if the individuals involved are friends off the court, it's risky in a game, in the same way that certain offensive racial statements would be.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

In reply to the OP, I agree with the part about threats of bodily harm, and racial statements. I would also like to add "offensive gender statements" to the list. A certain amount of teasing with regard to gender or sexual preferences is accepted among friends, but it must be absolutely zero between opponents, imo. Even if the individuals involved are friends off the court, it's risky in a game, in the same way that certain offensive racial statements would be.

Just for clarity, are you saying that if a player called another player a "homo" you would go flagrant?

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Just for clarity, are you saying that if a player called another player a "homo" you would go flagrant?

I might. Along with "fag", "gay" if it's used in an offensive manner, and other such words. These are insults in certain contexts, in the same way that the N word might be. I'm not saying it would be automatic, because I'm not sure there's anything that's automatic, but it would certainly put me in that range.

There are other words that I might react in the same way to, although again it would depend on the context. "Good shot, fatty" said sarcastically by an opponent on an airball, might very well be flagrant. It's the tone of disrespect and bullying that would make this unacceptable. Same would apply to "homo" "fag" and others. Are those words ever said respectfully? Not very often. I'd be looking pretty hard to see if there was any redeeming social value in the situation.