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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 03:34am
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Untucked jersey technical!

Hey everyone,

I am coach, so maybe I'm not allowed in here. haha, but I have question for y'alls. I did a search but didn't see anything specific to these circumstances.

This last weekend while in another village(Alaska) a referee gave our team a technical foul for a untucked jersey to start the third quarter. My player simply took the inbound pass to start the quarter and was promptly given a T. No warning to player/myself.

Is this nfhs rule book procedure? I don't have a copy here at home and it has been bothering me all weekend. Everything I have found online states a warning, or the kid is asked to leave the court.

Thanks everyone, Jim
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 04:22am
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There is no provision under NFHS for giving a technical foul for an untucked jersey. If it becomes an issue, an official can direct the player to leave the game. The pertinent rule is 3-3-5:

Rule 3 Players, Substitutes and Equipment

Section 3 Substitution
Article 5...A player not wearing the pants/skirt properly and above the hips and/or a player not tucking in a team jersey (front and back) designed to be worn inside the pants/skirt, shall be directed to leave the game.
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 05:28am
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Coach,
As your research has revealed the correct sanction is to direct the player to leave the game and require a substitute, if the shirt is out. If the player is to attempt FTs, then the procedure outlined in the first Case Book play listed below would be followed.
The only way that I could envision an official assessing a technical foul for this would be if the official directed the player to tuck in his jersey and then the player defiantly pulled it out again. That could be construed as unsporting conduct, but it is a stretch. Also pulling out the shirt in an act of disrespect or disgust for a call made by an official would be worthy of a T as noted in the final Case Book play below.


DIRECTED TO LEAVE GAME UNIFORM
3.3.5 SITUATION: B1 fouls A1. Just before A1 goes to the line for a one-andone,
the official observes: (a) A1 pull the shirt out of his/her pants; or (b) A1s
pants being worn below the hips. RULING: In both (a) and (b), A1 will be directed
to put the shirt in the pants or pull up the pants, and must leave the game
immediately following his/her last free throw(s). The lane is cleared for the free
throw and Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in, whether or not the last free
throw is successful.

10.4.1 SITUATION D: A1 commits his/her fifth foul and is disqualified. On the
way to the team bench, A1 removes his/her shirt or pulls it over their face: (a)
before the coach is notified; or (b) after the coach is notified. RULING: In (a) and
(b), a technical foul is charged to A1. In (b), an indirect technical foul is also
charged to the head as A1 is considered to be bench personnel. (10-4-1h)
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 07:31pm
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re

Thank you guys for your confirmation. This is just one of those situations where, as a visiting team, we were at the mercy of this certain referee for both games. Unfortunate for the players. This situation alone could have been a potential 8 point swing and that's just this situation. Painfully obvious where this school's employee affiliation was. Thanks again, I'll stop now, before my blood starts boiling again.

Jim
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 09:17pm
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your in Alaska, your blood shouldn't boil. Or Perhaps Palin was doing the game.
I remember thinking it might be a T after a couple of warnings but then saw that they would have to leave the game. As mentioned only a T in a very unusual case.
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 11:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinhagakBall View Post
Thank you guys for your confirmation. This is just one of those situations where, as a visiting team, we were at the mercy of this certain referee for both games. Unfortunate for the players. This situation alone could have been a potential 8 point swing and that's just this situation. Painfully obvious where this school's employee affiliation was. Thanks again, I'll stop now, before my blood starts boiling again.

Jim
Are you suggesting this particular official was cheating? I ask because you specify that the visiting team was at his mercy.
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 12:22am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Are you suggesting this particular official was cheating? I ask because you specify that the visiting team was at his mercy.
In many places the officials from some of the smaller areas have been known to favor the home team. It is particularly suspicious if the officials are hired by the school AD and not assigned through an association.
In states with vast open spaces between the communities, such as Alaska, it can be very difficult to for the visiting team.
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 12:56am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
In many places the officials from some of the smaller areas have been known to favor the home team. It is particularly suspicious if the officials are hired by the school AD and not assigned through an association.
In states with vast open spaces between the communities, such as Alaska, it can be very difficult to for the visiting team.
I know, I was just wondering if that's what he was getting at.

Some areas in the midwest hire their officials directly, I know my first varsity assignment was just such a deal, so I wouldn't call that arrangement particularly suspicious; unless you're referencing those areas predisposed towards that anyway.
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 01:26am
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Cheating, like many other things, is often in the eye of the beholder. I have called countless jr. high games within a 15 mile radius of my home. Supporters of all the other schools have said that I call in favor of my home school. Supporter of the home school have said that I overcompensated and called against that school. etc. etc.
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 01:48am
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My feeling is that officials in small communities have it tough. They have to see all of those people in the store and around town the next day. They have to work with the parents and go to church with the families. So they certainly hear about whatever decisions they make, especially the ones that don't favor the home team. Also, if the official has kids, they hear about what dad called from the other kids at school. It can't be pleasant.

If I moved to a small town, I wouldn't call there.
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 03:02am
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Wink

Many of these villages are very small and put who ever they can get to officiate on the court. As Nevada has said they have to live there. Can get pretty involved. A lot of these people are not even certified. That is why when we send people to work games in these communities we are so appreciated. It is a whole different world then most of us realize.
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 03:20am
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Originally Posted by Ed Maeder View Post
That is why when we send people to work games in these communities we are so appreciated.
Depends on who wins.

"You guys suck!! I liked it better when my brother-in-law was the ref!"
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 06:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinhagakBall View Post
Thank you guys for your confirmation. This is just one of those situations where, as a visiting team, we were at the mercy of this certain referee for both games. Unfortunate for the players. This situation alone could have been a potential 8 point swing and that's just this situation. Painfully obvious where this school's employee affiliation was. Thanks again, I'll stop now, before my blood starts boiling again.

Jim
Coach,
Although you seem to have seen a pattern of inconsistency, the possibility remains that official, in the case of the jersey, knew the rule no better than anyone else in the gym.

Welcome to the Forum.
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 08:47am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
My feeling is that officials in small communities have it tough. They have to see all of those people in the store and around town the next day. They have to work with the parents and go to church with the families. So they certainly hear about whatever decisions they make, especially the ones that don't favor the home team. Also, if the official has kids, they hear about what dad called from the other kids at school. It can't be pleasant.

If I moved to a small town, I wouldn't call there.
I agree, completely. The pressures would be enormous. On top of that, in those areas where travel between cities isn't exactly simple, not calling in your home town wouldn't really be an option.

My next question for the coach here would be whether he felt both officials were homers, or just the one?
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Old Tue Feb 02, 2010, 08:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
My feeling is that officials in small communities have it tough. They have to see all of those people in the store and around town the next day. They have to work with the parents and go to church with the families. So they certainly hear about whatever decisions they make, especially the ones that don't favor the home team. Also, if the official has kids, they hear about what dad called from the other kids at school. It can't be pleasant.

If I moved to a small town, I wouldn't call there.
My brother tried working baseball when he was stationed in HI and was frustrated by the islander/non-islander attitude from the native officials. Granted, this is the perspective of someone who hasn't really officated much, but I think the "us vs. them" attitude is the same, as is the social pressure from friends and family outside of officiating. Sometimes we like to think of officiating and our decisions on the court in some sort of basketball vacuum; but that's not the case.
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