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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 31, 2010, 01:49pm
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Illegal court

Had this Friday night. Varsity Boys. I walk into the "gym" only to find out that this school plays their games in the church, where congregation is held! When I first walk in, I am about 15' from the near sideline at the division line. As I look around I notice that the scorers table and clock are up on the stage, where services are preformed. The benches are on the floor, right in front of the stage. The students section is positioned on the stage, behind the home bench. The "stands" consist of 4 rows of folding chairs going right up to the side of the court (3' away) The ceiling has to be the minimum of 25' high, the court is the shortest court I have seen since my days of boys club ball. In the 4 corners, the walls come to within 3 inches of the court. This runs about a foot parallel to to court before it turns away and in now about 3' away from the court. There is NO restraining line. No coaches boxes marked. They have the X marked with tape. We let the coaches use the area in front of their benches as the "box" because I think in varsity, coaches should be allowed to stand. The best part of the entire "gym" was that all the way around the court, except for under the lane extended OOB, there was carpet that came within an inch of the OOB lines.
To top things off, we had the teachers lounge available to change in, and we had to use the public bathroom, which had a shower available if we wanted to use it. We did not.
I know that this court doesn't fit the NFHS standards for a legal court, but what would you do in this situation? Would you say that the game can't be played for safety reasons? This court has been around for a while (partner said he was there 3 years ago) We were the 4th game of the day, so the school could ask, why was it legal for games 1-3, but not game 4? I don't know if the school has some sort of exemption from the state, but I honestly don't see how they can play their games here.
We did play the game, between 2 top 10 teams in their class in the state, and I have never felt more claustrophobic on a basketball court before. I plan on sending an email to our association commissioner asking about the legality of the court, but I am certain he is already aware of it because he has been the commissioner for over 30 years.
Oh yeah, and I am there again tomorrow
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Old Sun Jan 31, 2010, 02:44pm
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Originally Posted by LocDog249 View Post
I plan on sending an email to our association commissioner asking about the legality of the court.
That's what I would do.
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Old Sun Jan 31, 2010, 09:04pm
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Unless there is a safety issue, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old Sun Jan 31, 2010, 10:15pm
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State associations can provide a waiver to schools who use a court that isn't "legally" covered in the book.

Needless to say, said church/gym will not be hosting any tournaments.
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Old Sun Jan 31, 2010, 11:39pm
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Got a reply from my commissioner; the state granted them a waiver and he wasn't happy to hear that there is no coaching box marked. He said that they will have one marked for tomorrows game.

Still a gym I'm not looking forward to being back in.
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 12:56am
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Originally Posted by LocDog249 View Post
Got a reply from my commissioner; the state granted them a waiver and he wasn't happy to hear that there is no coaching box marked. He said that they will have one marked for tomorrows game.

Still a gym I'm not looking forward to being back in.
I see you're in Portland. What school? There's a Christian school out in Damascus that has carpet all over the floor, but they don't do hs games there, just ms.

Also, I think by rule, they don't have to have a coaching box marked, but then the coach can't stand or pace nervously back and forth. But I haven't done very well on rules this weekend, so I may be wrong about that.
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 02:00pm
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Originally Posted by Juulie Downs View Post
I see you're in Portland. What school? There's a Christian school out in Damascus that has carpet all over the floor, but they don't do hs games there, just ms.

Also, I think by rule, they don't have to have a coaching box marked, but then the coach can't stand or pace nervously back and forth. But I haven't done very well on rules this weekend, so I may be wrong about that.
Yeah, I've seen carpeted courts back where I was from, but that was middle school too. I had never seen it come up to the edge like this for a HS game. The game was at Westside Christian.
As for the coaching box, that is optional, and if there isn't one, they can't use what they don't have. We probably should have made them sit by rule, but we didn't. Talked with the commissioner and he said he would call them and make sure they have the box marked tonight. Im at Damascus next week, so hope their V court is better than MS.
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 02:06pm
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Originally Posted by LocDog249 View Post
Yeah, I've seen carpeted courts back where I was from, but that was middle school too. I had never seen it come up to the edge like this for a HS game. The game was at Westside Christian.
As for the coaching box, that is optional, and if there isn't one, they can't use what they don't have. We probably should have made them sit by rule, but we didn't. Talked with the commissioner and he said he would call them and make sure they have the box marked tonight. Im at Damascus next week, so hope their V court is better than MS.
Damascus Cnristian isn't the school I'm talking about. I can't remember the name of the place I was at -- a few years ago. I LOVE the Damascus Cnristian gym, expect that there are no dressing rooms for the refs. But those old wooden gyms with the high rafters and the orange glow... Ah, that's atmosphere! Have fun out there!
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 02:36pm
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I worked at Westside Christian when I was in Portland. It's not that bad. You're making much ado about nothing. While it is varsity, it is the equivalent of a mediocre JV game at any public high school. It's a gym. You work the game and you go home. Were you seriously considering not allowing the game to be played? I assume you haven't been to Vernonia yet?

I can't wait till you're at one of the high schools that doesn't have a shadow line painted through the mascot at midcourt....
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 02:52pm
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I worked at Westside Christian when I was in Portland. It's not that bad. You're making much ado about nothing. While it is varsity, it is the equivalent of a mediocre JV game at any public high school. It's a gym. You work the game and you go home. Were you seriously considering not allowing the game to be played? I assume you haven't been to Vernonia yet?

I can't wait till you're at one of the high schools that doesn't have a shadow line painted through the mascot at midcourt....
No I wasn't considering not playing the game.... I just asked a hypothetical about what you (other refs) would do. I then threw out an example.
AS for making much ado about nothing... I think it's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt in one of the corners where they have 3 inches of space OOB.
I only started the thread because in my 10 years officiating I never encountered anything close to this set-up for a HS game. I worked at a school in IL that had fewer than 90 students, but they still had a gym, and bleachers, and a fully legal court.
From the sounds of it, if I had started my officiating career here, I would have seen a setup similar to this and wouldn't be as surprised by it.
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 03:03pm
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It will just give you more incentive to impress Howard (and the new commish) enough for you to get out of the Parochial circuit and work the public schools more.

I don't recall the walls being that close - there are "bleachers" on the side opposite the "table", aren't there? Maybe I'm mixing up 2 different gyms. Anyway, there are more joys that will await you. The Vernonia gym is one of my favorites. I loved going there because it was just a cool little town that hasn't seemed to progress from the 50's. Nothing to do there so everyone watches the games on Friday nights. But the gym is tiny and the endlines give you no room at all.

Side note - my favorite non-basketball moment happened in Vernonia. Lots of schools have a raffle where you win some cash prize or something at halftime for having the winning ticket. Well, one night in Vernonia, the raffle prize was a half a hog. I knew I wasn't in the big city anymore...
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 03:09pm
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Another side note - I believe I worked a game at Westside Christian with our own Camron Rust. It was fairly uneventful, but I do recall not being a big fan of the changing room.
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 03:11pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Unless there is a safety issue, I wouldn't worry about it.


Rulz rules, except when they don't.....
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 03:12pm
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I just transfered into the area in October, so I had to spend the first half of the season doing JV ball and getting my evaluations in. This half he's got me between big school girls V and small school boys V. He has been out to see me the second half, so I'm hoping to get the big school boys next year.
The walls are that close in each of the 4 corners, for about a foot-foot and a half. The "bleachers" consist of rows of folding chairs, all on the same level as the playing court. Must be why so many people stood along the back wall, you could get a better view.
I wouldn't mind going to Vernonia, cause I sure could use some free hams......
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Old Mon Feb 01, 2010, 03:14pm
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We've got a local parochial gym that's similar. No room on one sideline due to folding chairs, and an overhang that gets hit every now and then. It's a fun place to ref, though, due to the atmosphere.
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