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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 02:47am
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Exclamation Houston We Have A Problem!

High school boys varsity game ends (alledgedly) with the final score 86-88. Me and my partner are in the locker room changing when we hear a knock at the door. To our surprise it was the head coaches of bot teams with the official score book. Seems to be a error in the final score, both coaches agree that there's an error. Me and my partner observe the scorebook and we discovered the problem. The person who was keeping the book for the home team didn't add two points to the visiting team when he supposed to and this caused the visiting team to be down by two points. What do we do now? Me and my partner decided to make this right, we would put our uniforms back on, go back out to the gym and play one overtime period. Both coaches had no problem with this and after the end of the overtime we had a winner. What would you have done?
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 02:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2ref4Ever View Post
High school boys varsity game ends (alledgedly) with the final score 86-88. Me and my partner are in the locker room changing when we hear a knock at the door. To our surprise it was the head coaches of bot teams with the official score book. Seems to be a error in the final score, both coaches agree that there's an error. Me and my partner observe the scorebook and we discovered the problem. The person who was keeping the book for the home team didn't add two points to the visiting team when he supposed to and this caused the visiting team to be down by two points. What do we do now? Me and my partner decided to make this right, we would put our uniforms back on, go back out to the gym and play one overtime period. Both coaches had no problem with this and after the end of the overtime we had a winner. What would you have done?
The game was over when you left the floor with the official book indicating 88-86. A scoring mistake discovered after all officials leave the confines of the playing area is not correctable.

Basically, there is a point where a score is final...not subject to further review. It is necessary that such a point exists. It just happens to have been defined based on when the officials leave the floor area. No matter how right it might feel to resume a game 10 minutes after you thought it was over, it isn't.

The teams should be keeping score and should be making a big stink about a mismatch long before you got to the final buzzer.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 03:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2ref4Ever View Post
High school boys varsity game ends (alledgedly) with the final score 86-88. Me and my partner are in the locker room changing when we hear a knock at the door. To our surprise it was the head coaches of bot teams with the official score book. Seems to be a error in the final score, both coaches agree that there's an error. Me and my partner observe the scorebook and we discovered the problem. The person who was keeping the book for the home team didn't add two points to the visiting team when he supposed to and this caused the visiting team to be down by two points. What do we do now? Me and my partner decided to make this right, we would put our uniforms back on, go back out to the gym and play one overtime period. Both coaches had no problem with this and after the end of the overtime we had a winner. What would you have done?
If the book was correct and the two points were in there, but they were not properly posted to the scoreboard, then officially the game was tied at the end of the 4th quarter when you and your partner left the visual confines of the gym. You can come back and play the extra period in that case.

However, if the two points were missing from the book when you left, then it is too late to correct this now. The game is officially over.

We just had a thread on this: Scorer's Error

Last edited by Nevadaref; Tue Jan 26, 2010 at 03:28am.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 03:14am
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Case Book Play 2.2.4 situation C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2ref4Ever View Post
High school boys varsity game ends (alledgedly) with the final score 86-88. Me and my partner are in the locker room changing when we hear a knock at the door. To our surprise it was the head coaches of bot teams with the official score book. Seems to be a error in the final score, both coaches agree that there's an error. Me and my partner observe the scorebook and we discovered the problem. The person who was keeping the book for the home team didn't add two points to the visiting team when he supposed to and this caused the visiting team to be down by two points. What do we do now? Me and my partner decided to make this right, we would put our uniforms back on, go back out to the gym and play one overtime period. Both coaches had no problem with this and after the end of the overtime we had a winner. What would you have done?
This situation is similar to 2.2.4 Situation C in the 2009-2010 Case Book (Page 7):

2.2.4 SITUATION C: Team B leads by a point with seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1 releases the ball on a try, but the noise level makes it difficult for the covering official (umpire) to hear the horn. The umpire signals a successful goal. The referee definitely hears the horn before A1 releases the ball, but does not realize the umpire counted the goal. The officials leave the visual confines of the playing area & are not aware of the controversy until the scorer comes to the officials’ dressing room.

RULING: Even though the referee could have canceled the score if the officials had conferred before leaving, once the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area, the final score is official and no change can be made. In situations such as this, it is imperative that officials communicate with each other & that they do not leave until any problem regarding scoring or timing has been resolved.

Rule 2-2-4 states (Page 14 of the 2009-2010 Rules Book):
The jurisdiction of the officials' is terminated & the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.
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Last edited by chseagle; Tue Jan 26, 2010 at 03:17am.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 07:48am
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+2 for being too late to correct the score. There's all kinds of rules backing for that;
1) rule 2-2-4
2) rule 2-11-11
3) cassebook play 2.11.10SitB
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 08:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
+2 for being too late to correct the score.
Sorry, you get just one vote.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 08:43am
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What if the points in the player section indicate a tie game, but the running score total indicates home team ahead by two. Can the officials comeback to fix this? Does one section of the official score book take precedence over the other?
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 09:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIAm View Post
What if the points in the player section indicate a tie game, but the running score total indicates home team ahead by two.
1) Can the officials comeback to fix this?
2) Does one section of the official score book take precedence over the other?
1) No, as per rules already cited.
2) Yes, as per the rules already cited(2-11-11).
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 09:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIAm View Post
What if the points in the player section indicate a tie game, but the running score total indicates home team ahead by two. Can the officials comeback to fix this? Does one section of the official score book take precedence over the other?

Great question!
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 09:51am
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Vanity Score

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIAm View Post
What if the points in the player section indicate a tie game, but the running score total indicates home team ahead by two. Can the officials comeback to fix this? Does one section of the official score book take precedence over the other?
The player's scoring section is often called the "Vanity Section." The official score is kept on the running total line, generally at the top of the page....It takes precedence over the vanity section.....
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 10:05am
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I agree that once you're out of the visual confines, the game is over. I think a better thing to think about now is what could have been done to avoid the situation? Did anyone from the crew check with the official scorer late in the game? I will sometimes, especially in close games, during a late time out go over to the table and make sure that the scoreboard and book are correct. That way we can leave the floor in a hurry after the horn and you're good to go.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 10:06am
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Putting the misapplication of the rules aside, what are some of the lessons learned:

1) Rule book states in Rule 2, Section 11, Article 11 - that the official scorer is to "compare records with visiting scorer after each gaol, each foul, each timeout, and end of each quarter and overtime period, notifying the referee at once of any discrepancy." When I am the 'R' I ask that the scorers sit together and compare notes. We as officials blow over this rule. We need to enforce it.

2) I was taught in a close game, always check the score book before the end of the game during a time out or some delay just to verify that everything is ok.

It's time we enforce Rule 2-11-11 and verify the score book as close as possible to the end of the game. We are to blame as officials.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 10:12am
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The progressive team totals, otherwise known as the running summary of the score, in the official scorebook is the one that counts. It takes priority over everything else.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 10:16am
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How's that for the teams putting the officials in a horrible spot?

I know I wouldn't go back and do OT. I also hope I would've been over at the table a few times checking that the books match and that the scores match. Even in a 12 point game last night I went over twice (and I was actually the U, 2-person -- it was just more convenient for me considering throw in spots in front of the bench).
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 02:32pm
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Rule 2-11 (Pages 17-18) Scorer's Duties

The scorer shall:
ART. 1 . . . Keep a record of the names & numbers of players who are to start the game & of all substitutes who enter the game.
NOTE: It is recommended the team memberís numbers be entered into the scorebook in numerical order.
ART. 2 . . . Notify the nearer official when there is an infraction of the rules pertaining to submission of the roster, substitutions or numbers of players.
ART. 3 . . . Signal the officials by using the game horn or a sounding device unlike that used by the referee & umpire(s). This may be used immediately if, or as soon as, the ball is dead or is in control of the offending team.
ART. 4 . . . Record the field goals made, the free throws made & missed, & keep a running summary of the points scored.
ART. 5 . . . Record the personal & technical fouls called on each player & notify an official immediately when the fifth foul (personal & technical) is
charged to any player, the second technical foul is charged to any team member, bench personnel, or directly to the head coach, or the third technical foul is charged to the head coach.
ART. 6 . . . Record the time-out information charged to each team (who & when) & notify a team & its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.
ART. 7 . . . Record the jump balls for the alternating-possession procedure & be responsible for the possession arrow.
ART. 8 . . . Record the number of warnings in the official scorebook, as in Rule 4-47.
ART. 9 . . . Signal the nearer official each time a team is granted a time-out in excess of the allotted number.
ART. 10 . . . Signal in each half when a player commits a common foul beginning with his/her teamís 7th & 10th foul.
ART. 11 . . . Compare records with the visiting scorer after each goal, each foul, each charged time-out, and end of each quarter & extra period, notifying the referee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the official scorebook, unless he/she has knowledge which permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score & the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score. The scorebook of the home team shall be the official book, unless the referee rules otherwise. The official scorebook shall remain at the scorerís table throughout the game, including all intermissions.
NOTES:
1. The rules committee strongly recommends that the official scorer wear a black & white striped garment & that his/her location be clearly marked.
2. The procedure if a player who has committed his/her fifth foul continues to play because the scorer has failed to notify the official is as follows: As soon as the scorer discovers the irregularity, the game horn should be sounded after, or as soon as, the ball is in control of the offending team or is dead. The disqualified player must be removed immediately. Any points which may have been scored while such player was illegally in the game are counted. If other aspects of the error are correctable, the procedure to be followed is included among the duties of the officials.

Apparently the official scorer in this situation, didn't fully understand their duties properly nor did they read "Instructions to & Duties of the Scorer for Basketball Games".
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