need advice

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You made a wrong call. Your partner provided information which allowed you to correct yourself and make the right call. From the OP it sounds like the problem is how he provided the information. He shouldn't have said anything loud enough for others to hear. He tells you what he saw, and if it convinces you, you have the authority to change your call.

Bottom line. Your call. He has no authority to change it.

he actually came over to me while the fans and coach were protesting, and told me. He didn't make it loud enough to be heard by everyone, but maybe the local 2 or 3 players standing around.

But in the end, I did feel like an idiot that maybe I did get the call wrong. From my angle, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch. 50/50, I'm glad he came over to tell me what happened, but the other 50 I think he should've known he wasn't supposed to be looking there and let me there to get crucified. If coaches protested I would have went over and say "hey, from my angle it was a simultaneous touch and the ruling stands, end of discussion" and walk away.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

he actually came over to me while the fans and coach were protesting, and told me. He didn't make it loud enough to be heard by everyone, but maybe the local 2 or 3 players standing around.

But in the end, I did feel like an idiot that maybe I did get the call wrong. From my angle, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch. 50/50, I'm glad he came over to tell me what happened, but the other 50 I think he should've known he wasn't supposed to be looking there and let me there to get crucified. If coaches protested I would have went over and say "hey, from my angle it was a simultaneous touch and the ruling stands, end of discussion" and walk away.

From the OP, I thought he had muscled you out of the call. Where your partner should or should not have been looking is for another thread. He told you what he saw, and apparently was certain of it. You trusted your partner enough to change the call. Nothing wrong with that.

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

From the OP, I thought he had muscled you out of the call. Where your partner should or should not have been looking is for another thread. He told you what he saw, and apparently was certain of it. You trusted your partner enough to change the call. Nothing wrong with that.

The thing is though... I still feel like an idiot, and the HC of the Varsity team of the school that lost texted a buddy of mine prior to meeting him at the bar to say "he might be good for lower level game". This is a highly respectable coach in this league and I took big offense of that comment when I know that was the only f*ck I had the whole game. I referee'd a good game and for him to say that I would never do a varsity game just made me furious.

My main problem is how some of the current varsity officials, who I know are bullsh*t officials, actually get preferred by some coaches when I've been told that I am better than them. Officiating is yet another profession that has become too political, that you have to kiss @$$ to move up. I'm not that type and I may be hanging up my whistle soon just for that reason. I kiss no one's A$$ just to move forward.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

The thing is though... I still feel like an idiot, and the HC of the Varsity team of the school that lost texted a buddy of mine prior to meeting him at the bar to say "he might be good for lower level game". This is a highly respectable coach in this league and I took big offense of that comment when I know that was the only f*ck I had the whole game. I referee'd a good game and for him to say that I would never do a varsity game just made me furious.

This is probably the key to the whole thing.

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is probably the key to the whole thing.

Please emphasize what you mean. That team was the one that ended up getting the ball when it should have been given to the other team that had the AP, had I gone with that instead.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

Please emphasize what you mean. That team was the one that ended up getting the ball when it should have been given to the other team that had the AP, had I gone with that instead.

I mean the team that loses frequently blames the officials, whether it is in any way justified or not.

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I mean the team that loses frequently blames the officials, whether it is in any way justified or not.

Gotcha.

This just goes back to what I said, I think last week, about the bogus scratched list.

Example: Close game, 10 seconds left, Team A down by one point. You call a foul on Team A that any decent or better official would have called, double bonus, Team B shoots and makes both FT. Team A now down by 3 points, and cannot make a 3-pointer at the buzzer. Of course that coach is going to try to to blame YOU, saying that was a bogus or bad foul, and end up scratching you. Coaches here are told that they can't scratch you because of situations like that, but who's gonna know why a coach scratched you? DO AWAY WITH THE F*CKING SCRATCH LIST, PLEASE!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by representing

My main problem is how some of the current varsity officials, who I know are bullsh*t officials, actually get preferred by some coaches when I've been told that I am better than them. Officiating is yet another profession that has become too political, that you have to kiss @$$ to move up. I'm not that type and I may be hanging up my whistle soon just for that reason. I kiss no one's A$$ just to move forward.

Do you think, just maybe, that there is something about the way those guys do things that the coaches like?

If you believe you're so good by what a few people say, you've gotta also believe it when they say your not.

Accusations of politics, more often that not, come form those who don't realize how much more they have to learn. Go ahead and hang up your whistle. There are plenty of people who'll be willing to put in the hard work to get to the top. To me, you sound like you just want quick and easy way.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Do you think, just maybe, that there is something about the way those guys do things that the coaches like?

If you believe you're so good by what a few people say, you've gotta also believe it when they say your not.

Accusations of politics, more often that not, come form those who don't realize how much more they have to learn. Go ahead and hang up your whistle. There are plenty of people who'll be willing to put in the hard work to get to the top. To me, you sound like you just want quick and easy way.

Mr. Rust,

your assessment is just about right. You must have some adversity in order to improve. This situation the OP is discussing my have alot of external factors to go along with it. The ulitmate responsibility relies on the individual and what he/she can control. There is nothing in life easy worth having.

[KJUmp]

Rep:
I'm in agreement with what has been said by both Nevada and Camron. Listen to what these guys are telling you. I believe you're a somewhat newer official (probably not as new as me..2 yrs.) but the last thing any of us newer, non-certified, non patched, etc. officials should be worrying about are politics and/or what coaches/AD's, fans think of us. We shouldn't be wasting our time on stuff like..."this vet or that vet is horses**t, lazy, an a**kisser etc. We simply have too much to learn about this game. We have too much that we have to work on in our own game....mechanics, game management, positioning, rules application in game situations. (Working on stuff like that could have avoided or at least help you handle the sitch in your game better).
Focus on getting better in these and other areas and in time you'll make the lists, get the plum assignments, and most importantly, have earned the respect of coaches and fellow officials as a strong, solid referee.
Rather than paying attention to refs who feel are "not as good as you" and are getting playoff/big games...pick out one or two refs who you think are outstanding and say to yourself..."I want to be as good as those guys. How do I get there? What do I need to be working on and getting better at?
Hey, I still haven't made my board. When I achieve that goal, I'll still be years away from working the top divisions/teams let alone playoffs. But here's how I look at it, I can work hard and be the best JV ref out there, or be the best board official who hasn't worked a playoff game. Just try to get satisfaction at being the best you can be...and what you can do to get better.
If all you're going to be is a ref who worries about "politics"...hang up the whistle. Just my two cents partner, I do wish you well.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Rep:
I'm in agreement with what has been said by both Nevada and Camron. Listen to what these guys are telling you. I believe you're a somewhat newer official (probably not as new as me..2 yrs.) but the last thing any of us newer, non-certified, non patched, etc. officials should be worrying about are politics and/or what coaches/AD's, fans think of us. We shouldn't be wasting our time on stuff like..."this vet or that vet is horses**t, lazy, an a**kisser etc. We simply have too much to learn about this game. We have too much that we have to work on in our own game....mechanics, game management, positioning, rules application in game situations. (Working on stuff like that could have avoided or at least help you handle the sitch in your game better).
Focus on getting better in these and other areas and in time you'll make the lists, get the plum assignments, and most importantly, have earned the respect of coaches and fellow officials as a strong, solid referee.
Rather than paying attention to refs who feel are "not as good as you" and are getting playoff/big games...pick out one or two refs who you think are outstanding and say to yourself..."I want to be as good as those guys. How do I get there? What do I need to be working on and getting better at?
Hey, I still haven't made my board. When I achieve that goal, I'll still be years away from working the top divisions/teams let alone playoffs. But here's how I look at it, I can work hard and be the best JV ref out there, or be the best board official who hasn't worked a playoff game. Just try to get satisfaction at being the best you can be...and what you can do to get better.
If all you're going to be is a ref who worries about "politics"...hang up the whistle. Just my two cents partner, I do wish you well.

Excellent advice for the newer official, and maybe some not-so-new ones.

Great attitude.

You are wise beyond your experience.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by representing

Today, in a highly intense Girls JV game, I was trail. Ball is right in front of me and all of the sudden it becomes loose, on its way going out of bounds. Two girls, both of opposite teams, reaches for the ball and I swear it was nearly simultaneously touched and goes out of bounds. I take a second to think about it and I say "simultaneously touched, jump ball" and the crowd goes wild. My partner, who shouldn't have even been looking at this play, comes over and says "I saw white touched it last, it is red's ball". Now I just looked like an idiot and says "Red's ball" and gives it to red, even though if I would have gone to the arrow it would have been white's ball.

The angle I was with it coming to me, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch, while my partner and a few friends of mine in the stands said from their angle you could definitely see white touched it last. Any advice on how to avoid this situation? Let it be known that it was with about 10-15 seconds left and White was leading by 2 points at this exact moment.

Originally Posted by representing

The thing is though... I still feel like an idiot, and the HC of the Varsity team of the school that lost texted a buddy of mine prior to meeting him at the bar to say "he might be good for lower level game". This is a highly respectable coach in this league and I took big offense of that comment when I know that was the only f*ck I had the whole game. I referee'd a good game and for him to say that I would never do a varsity game just made me furious.

My main problem is how some of the current varsity officials, who I know are bullsh*t officials, actually get preferred by some coaches when I've been told that I am better than them. Officiating is yet another profession that has become too political, that you have to kiss @$$ to move up. I'm not that type and I may be hanging up my whistle soon just for that reason. I kiss no one's A$$ just to move forward.

Rep,
One of the characteristics of a varsity official is the ability to make a decision during crunch time of games. In your own words, you indicated "nearly simultaneous." This tells me that SOMEONE hit it last. Your hesitation to go one direction or the other may have provided the coach with reason to believe that you are not YET ready -- coach did not appear to say NEVER -- to do varsity games. While that may be a bit of a blow to your ego, use it as a motivator to continue to get better.

We all miss calls. Sometimes, we miss calls late in games. My guess is that there were some other things during the game when combined with the play in the final 12 seconds caused the coach to make his statement.

If it is nearly simultaneous, you need to identify who it hit last. If you are not sure, you can look for help from your partner (hand up to kill the clock and no immediate directional signal). Hopefully, your partner reads it and can help you if you need it. BUT, "nearly" should have generated a call other than "not sure" (which is what the held ball indicates).

[jalons]

Originally Posted by representing

My main problem is how some of the current varsity officials, who I know are bullsh*t officials, actually get preferred by some coaches when I've been told that I am better than them. Officiating is yet another profession that has become too political, that you have to kiss @$$ to move up. I'm not that type and I may be hanging up my whistle soon just for that reason. I kiss no one's A$$ just to move forward.

Here's a few pieces of advice that I received early in my officiating career:
1. Only worry about what you can control.
2. Do things the right way so when you make it you don't have to explain yourself or apologize to anyone.

This has worked for me so far.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by representing

he actually came over to me while the fans and coach were protesting, and told me. He didn't make it loud enough to be heard by everyone, but maybe the local 2 or 3 players standing around.

But in the end, I did feel like an idiot that maybe I did get the call wrong. From my angle, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch. 50/50, I'm glad he came over to tell me what happened, but the other 50 I think he should've known he wasn't supposed to be looking there and let me there to get crucified. If coaches protested I would have went over and say "hey, from my angle it was a simultaneous touch and the ruling stands, end of discussion" and walk away.

A few questions.

1. Did you partner come over in a confident manner?

2. Were you too close to the play? (depth wise)

3. Were you on top (looking down) or bottom (down looking up) on play

These MAY be a few things to take into consideration.


I believe, just my opinion, that slight hesitation displayed a little uncertainty on your behalf.

See, sale, and move on. Especially, a call that close... like the one you describe....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I believe, just my opinion, that slight hesitation displayed a little uncertainty on your behalf.

I think you may be right. It should go without saying, shouldn't it, that if indeed he was uncertain he could have made eye contact with his partner for possible help before signaling direction.