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[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Could be, but the play was also called correctly by rule.

OK, let me ask you a question....and forget about home and visitors.....the scorebook is supposed to be neutral. And mistakes will made honestly.

You're the coach of a team in a state high school championship game. Your team has never been in a state championship game before, let alone won one. You're down by 1 point with 10 seconds to go. The opposing team has a spot throw-in under your basket after you called your last timeout. You're pressing naturally and you've also told your players to foul immediately if they can't steal the ball on the throw-in. The thrower is up to a 4-count, which you know by watching the official's arm, when the thrower asks for a timeout. The timeout is granted. You now hear the scorer tell the official that the opposing team didn't have any timeouts left. The official responds by telling the scorer that it's OK and it isn't a technical foul because your opponents weren't exactly sure how many TO's they had left. Soooooo, you tell me....are you, the coach who just spent hundreds of hours with your kids getting them ready for a state championship game, now gonna say "Gee, that's fair. I agree with that completely."?

Be honest.

Btw, if you need to call another timeout also, do you think that you should be able to now take another one too--because "fair's fair"? Or is that concept only good for one team at a time? And if you do call an extra timeout and get a "T" for it, are you just gonna nod your head and say "Gee, I agree with that call too. That's different"?

JR,
Good scenario. First of all, I am going to know how many timeouts I have and my opponents have in this situation. because I am going to go to the source -- the official scorer (with confirmation with my scorer). If there is a discrepancy, the official scorer's information is the one that matters (see my post in regards to indicating that even if I KNOW I have only called four timeouts, if the OFFICIAL SCORER says we have called five, that is the OFFICIAL answer). Therefore, there will not be uncertainty as I have gotten the information from the OFFICIAL SCORER.

Keep in mind, to make your situation close to the OP, my opposing coach was formally told he had ONE TIMEOUT remaining. I would be asking the question of the scorer the timeout situation for both teams. Therefore, I would know how many timeouts, if any, both of us have. If the count gets to four, I will know whether we are one second from a turnover or whether we are likely going to have to put a defensive stop together, again.

I brought up this situation at one of our association's meeting tonight. I specifically asked the question of the local interpreter from this association -- different from the other interpreter I mentioned earlier. Initially, he indicated that a technical foul had to be called by rule. The more I explained -- 16 year old scorer, no visitor scorer, etc. -- the more he became troubled by the situation. He indicated that he would ask for all timeout information throughout the game. In the event that the scorer did not indicate specifics of the timeouts, he indicated that this would be "problematic."

Nearly all officials I asked to give their opinion indicated they would not issue a technical foul since the official book indicated four timeouts had been used.

This is the issue, Jurassic. When is "official" official? I understand that a scorer can make an administrative change until the score has been verified. But, would you agree that this situation is at least somewhat troubling? Keeping track of five timeouts during a heated game can be a challenge for a coach. We are relying on the accuracy of the official scorer (with our scorer keeping a record for comparison as well). Unlike the situation that you proposed to me, in the OP, there was no dispute that the scorer through the official had passed along inaccurate information. in the OP. Unlike your situation, the coach clearly thought he had a timeout left because the OFFICIAL SOURCE of such information had CONFIRMED it.

While the OP did not give intimate details of the situation leading to the timeout, there is a possibility that the team was under little to no duress. In your situation, if my opposing coach did not call a timeout, it would have resulted in a turnover -- possibly. If the coach had been informed that he had no timeouts left, he would have no argument. Even if he had not been informed, I could live with the coach or team being responsible for asking for the official information.

But, in the OP, the coach had been given specific information that HE HAD ONE TIMEOUT remaining. This is what I am struggling with in this situation. If the coach had PRESUMED he had a timeout left, the coach would be wrong -- technical foul would have been well earned (Chris Weber would fit into this category). If the coach had relied on his own scorer, the coach would be wrong -- once again, a technical foul would have been earned. But, in this case, the coach went directly to the source -- actually, the information was provided from the source via the official came to him. There was NO intention to "cheat" the other team by taking an extra timeout. He was merely calling a timeout that he had been OFFICIALLY TOLD he had -- there was no dispute, there was no confusion.

The number of timeouts a team has remaining is one of the most important pieces of information a scorer is responsible for tracking accurately. I have a real problem with a scorer making such a MAJOR change without communicating this information to the officials and the coaches. Remember, in the OP, two minutes had elapsed. Certainly, enough time to communicate the change to the officials and coaches.

The scorer has, quite possibly, cost this team a chance to win a game because they make a change in their book AND INFORMED NO ONE.