Newer Posters: You make the call!

[Illini_Ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Okay, I've dragged this on long enough. You're very close. I'm going to change the OP slightly.
First half, shooting foul called on B1, putting A1 at the line for two shots. It's B1's third, so coach sends a sub to the table. After the first shot, B6 comes in for B1. After B1 gets to the bench, A1 turns and taunts him. Official calls a T.

A) Coach wants to sub B1 back in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in in order to prevent the fourth foul. Is this allowed?

B) Coach wants to put B7 in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in because he's not really that great a player other than shooting free throws. Is this allowed?

A) Not allowed. B1 cannot entered until the next opportunity to sub after the clock has legally ran.

B) Legal as long as he isn't replaced by B1 or whomever B7 came in for.

My question is this. Say a sub reports after the warning horn during a time-out AND he is not a player that was subbed for since the clock was stopped prior to the time-out. Let's say he hasn't even been in the game yet.

The sub is not allowed to enter. The ball is handed to the thrower and before the ball is inbounded a foul is called on B1.

Can the sub at the table enter at this time? I say yes. I think that the clock running only applies to someone who is subbed for and wishes to re-enter.

Am I correct?

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Okay, I've dragged this on long enough. You're very close. I'm going to change the OP slightly.
First half, shooting foul called on B1, putting A1 at the line for two shots. It's B1's third, so coach sends a sub to the table. After the first shot, B6 comes in for B1. After B1 gets to the bench, A1 turns and taunts him. Official calls a T.

A) Coach wants to sub B1 back in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in in order to prevent the fourth foul. Is this allowed?

B) Coach wants to put B7 in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in because he's not really that great a player other than shooting free throws. Is this allowed?

In the spirit of what's going on here, have tried to find citations in either rules or case book but haven't been successful. But seems I remember this discussion coming up before, at least in part.

A) So I don't have a citation, but I'm gonna say since B1 was subbed for in this sequence, he is not an eligible sub (until a tick comes off the clock), so, no, this isn't allowed.

B) Yes, if B7 was simply on the bench (or otherwise eligible), he can shoot the Tech FTs and be subbed for. Rules say you have to sit for at least a tick, not necessarily play for a tick.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Following the time-out, the official hands the ball to A4 (the thrower). With A4 still holding the ball, B2 immediately commits a DOG by violating the throw-in plane. It's B's second violation for violating the throw-in plane. A technical foul is charged to Team B.

Team A's head coach wants the free throws to be shot by the following:
A9 (as stated, currently checked-in at the bench)
A8 (who is on the bench)
A7 (who is on the bench)
A3 (player)
A2 (player)
A10 (who is on the bench)
A15 (who was heading to the table when the DOG was called, but hadn't checked-in at the time)

As long as no one is DQ'd, anyone listed above can shoot the FTs, however if coming off the bench the person they sub for will not be allowed to become active until after the clock has been properly started.

A9 could go in to shoot the 1st FT by replacing A2, A15 could shoot the 2nd FT by replacing A4. However A2 & A4 are unable to come back in until after the clock properly started.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Amesman

In the spirit of what's going on here, have tried to find citations in either rules or case book but haven't been successful. But seems I remember this discussion coming up before, at least in part.

A) So I don't have a citation, but I'm gonna say since B1 was subbed for in this sequence, he is not an eligible sub (until a tick comes off the clock), so, no, this isn't allowed.

B) Yes, if B7 was simply on the bench (or otherwise eligible), he can shoot the Tech FTs and be subbed for. Rules say you have to sit for at least a tick, not necessarily play for a tick.

Yep

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

My question is this. Say a sub reports after the warning horn during a time-out AND he is not a player that was subbed for since the clock was stopped prior to the time-out. Let's say he hasn't even been in the game yet.

The sub is not allowed to enter. The ball is handed to the thrower and before the ball is inbounded a foul is called on B1.

Can the sub at the table enter at this time? I say yes. I think that the clock running only applies to someone who is subbed for and wishes to re-enter.

Am I correct?

Yes, you are correct. The rule is that player must wait until the next opportunity to sub; that opportunity comes, in this case, with the foul.

[Adam]

Here's one from my game last night.

A6 reports to the table during play. The next opportunity for her to come in happens to be a shooting foul. The coach requests a timeout as the official is reporting the foul.

When can this sub enter?

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by fiasco

By rule (went and looked it up, it's 8-3), the coach can designate anyone to shoot one or both of the free throws, even an eligible substitute.

What does the wording "eligible" substitute mean?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

What does the wording "eleigible" substitute mean? Why the text about designated starter - is that for T's prior to a game?

A33 has been DQ'd because he has 5 fouls... is A33 an eligible substitute?

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's one from my game last night.

A6 reports to the table during play. The next opportunity for her to come in happens to be a shooting foul. The coach requests a timeout as the official is reporting the foul.

When can this sub enter?

Upon breaking from the TO. Just as if A7 was being sent in for A5 who had just fouled out on a given play — A6 (supposed to sub for, say, A4) would also enter at that time.

[Adam]

Yep, and I kicked it; passively anyway. As we were administering the shots, I looked up and saw her at the table again. No big deal, as she came in after the first shot anyway, but it made me think anyway.

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Here we go. They got ejected for smacking the guy working the table! Now, there you go.

Best. Post. Ever.

(excluding anything Padget has written, sorry!)

[tjones1]

I'm going to let this thread go until late tonight then I'll post the answer.

I've got to admit folks... this situation tripped me up a little and orginally I had the incorrect answer.

But, the great thing about being wrong is I learned something today!

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

What does the wording "eligible" substitute mean?

A player who has not been DQ'd or is otherwise restricted by the substitution requirements (when replaced, cannot re-enter until clock starts).

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by fiasco

A player who has not been DQ'd or is otherwise restricted by the substitution requirements (when replaced, cannot re-enter until clock starts).

Really showing my rookie spots, so a player that subs in does not have to play a tick, but one who is subbed out does have to sit a tick?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

Really showing my rookie spots, so a player that subs in does not have to play a tick, but one who is subbed out does have to sit a tick?

This is correct.