Coach pleas for a foul... and GETS IT

[bbcof83]

...or at least that's how I'm sure it looked to B's coach. I normally don't care how I "appear" to anyone, but this situation bothered me a little.

Sit: Last couple minutes of a well played boys V game. Team A is up by 5. Team B is playing very aggressively against A's clock draining weave, taking chances for a steal but not afraid to foul. A's coach, right behind me (I'm T), starts to yell "HAND CHECK!" any time an A player starts to dribble and B is close. Second time through weave he yells "HAND CHECK!" again. He happens to be correct, A1 was displaced by a push from B1. I blow my whistle and turn to report while partner lines players up for bonus FTs. I'm a little annoyed with the LOUD cry but forget about it quickly.

20 seconds later, next time A has the ball, same thing happens. "HAND CHECK!" TWEET! Hand check foul. Now, this time I turn around and B coach gives me the "Just because he's crying for it doesn't mean you have to call it."

This happens a third time in a row within a 1 minute span. And now I'm aware of how this may appear (doesn't help that I'm the calling official all three times).

Question, would any of you handled this situation specially? Would any of you perhaps said anything to A's coach about toning it down? Since the home team had the ball when A's coach was yelling it was quiet enough for the whole gym to hear. I'm sure it appeared (to some biased viewers) that my whistle was prompted by the A coach's plea. When in fact, he was just anticipating B being too aggressive and fouling and I was, of course, reacting to the players' actions.

[cmhjordan23]

I would say you handeled correctly. To many situaitons happen where a coach wants a call, in my mind I no longer want to give him the call. But as an official, you see something you call it. As far as the opposing coach's comment, it is hard to ignore. I've just gotten to the point where I don't really care what a coach says. He takes it too far, automatic T. That usually shuts them up.

[truerookie]

This situation is one I believe simmered too long. The first time I blew the whistle to make the call. I would have told the coach right then to cut it out. If he insisted on assisting with calling the game. He would have been doing it while being seatbelted. Unsporting behavior attempting to influence an official call.

[Mark Padgett]

"Coach, I called it because it was a foul, not because of what he said. You should know by now I don't listen to anything you guys say."

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

...or at least that's how I'm sure it looked to B's coach. I normally don't care how I "appear" to anyone, but this situation bothered me a little.

Sit: Last couple minutes of a well played boys V game. Team A is up by 5. Team B is playing very aggressively against A's clock draining weave, taking chances for a steal but not afraid to foul. A's coach, right behind me (I'm T), starts to yell "HAND CHECK!" any time an A player starts to dribble and B is close. Second time through weave he yells "HAND CHECK!" again. He happens to be correct, A1 was displaced by a push from B1. I blow my whistle and turn to report while partner lines players up for bonus FTs. I'm a little annoyed with the LOUD cry but forget about it quickly.

20 seconds later, next time A has the ball, same thing happens. "HAND CHECK!" TWEET! Hand check foul. Now, this time I turn around and B coach gives me the "Just because he's crying for it doesn't mean you have to call it."

This happens a third time in a row within a 1 minute span. And now I'm aware of how this may appear (doesn't help that I'm the calling official all three times).

Question, would any of you handled this situation specially? Would any of you perhaps said anything to A's coach about toning it down? Since the home team had the ball when A's coach was yelling it was quiet enough for the whole gym to hear. I'm sure it appeared (to some biased viewers) that my whistle was prompted by the A coach's plea. When in fact, he was just anticipating B being too aggressive and fouling and I was, of course, reacting to the players' actions.

Why were you the T in all instances? Maybe a switch on the fouls would have given your partner a chance to make one of the calls.

[TimTaylor]

I agree it looks bad. IMHO, by not addressing it you let him know he can get away with it and he took advantage of that. It doesn't have to be confrontational - a simple, quiet but firm "Coach, you need to let us do the officiating." or something similar. Technically (pun intended), it's a violation of 10-4-1-b, so you can and probably should T the coach if he doesn't heed the warning.

Coaches need to coach and let the officials officiate. Sending the message early will eliminate a lot of this crap.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

...or at least that's how I'm sure it looked to B's coach. I normally don't care how I "appear" to anyone, but this situation bothered me a little.

Sit: Last couple minutes of a well played boys V game. Team A is up by 5. Team B is playing very aggressively against A's clock draining weave, taking chances for a steal but not afraid to foul. A's coach, right behind me (I'm T), starts to yell "HAND CHECK!" any time an A player starts to dribble and B is close. Second time through weave he yells "HAND CHECK!" again. He happens to be correct, A1 was displaced by a push from B1. I blow my whistle and turn to report while partner lines players up for bonus FTs. I'm a little annoyed with the LOUD cry but forget about it quickly.

20 seconds later, next time A has the ball, same thing happens. "HAND CHECK!" TWEET! Hand check foul. Now, this time I turn around and B coach gives me the "Just because he's crying for it doesn't mean you have to call it."

This happens a third time in a row within a 1 minute span. And now I'm aware of how this may appear (doesn't help that I'm the calling official all three times).

Question, would any of you handled this situation specially? Would any of you perhaps said anything to A's coach about toning it down? Since the home team had the ball when A's coach was yelling it was quiet enough for the whole gym to hear. I'm sure it appeared (to some biased viewers) that my whistle was prompted by the A coach's plea. When in fact, he was just anticipating B being too aggressive and fouling and I was, of course, reacting to the players' actions.

I think that it's imperative at the point that you call the foul (or soon after) that you shut that coach down. Actually, you should've done it earlier, but since you didn't it's the best you can do. Otherwise, the perception from the other coach will be that you are letting the coach call the game and he may start doing the same things. He's already thinking it and can you blame him?

I don't think the post below yours is a good one. Technical fouls should be rare and should improve the game. If the coach doesn't respond to a professionally delivered message, "Coach, I can't have you calling the game from over here, I'll take care of hand checks when they happen" or some such and the behavior continues, by all means the technical might improve the game. It's a tool -- but it's a sledgehammer. Sometimes you need something a bit smaller and finer.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If the coach doesn't respond to a professionally delivered message

Here's one I use. "Coach, let's switch places. You come out here and call the game and I'll go to the bench and act like a jackass."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jburt

Why were you the T in all instances? Maybe a switch on the fouls would have given your partner a chance to make one of the calls.

He only made one call. The coach was whining when there were no calls being made.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

He only made one call. The coach was whining when there were no calls being made.

Rich,

From the O.P. it looks to me like he called three fouls within a one minute span...

FWIW, I agree with you on the T......try to talk them out of it first, and if that doesn't work we always have the T to resort to.....

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

He only made one call. The coach was whining when there were no calls being made.

Originally Posted by bbCO3

I blow my whistle and turn to report while partner lines players up for bonus FTs. I'm a little annoyed with the LOUD cry but forget about it quickly.

20 seconds later, next time A has the ball, same thing happens. "HAND CHECK!" TWEET! Hand check foul. Now, this time I turn around and B coach gives me the "Just because he's crying for it doesn't mean you have to call it."

This happens a third time in a row within a 1 minute span. And now I'm aware of how this may appear (doesn't help that I'm the calling official all three times)

.

[Jburt]

I agree that a quick word should be enough to diffuse the situation, but perception can be reality and sometimes we need to let our partners get a call, especially when the mechanics call for it.

edit:
Rich, just saw your other thread about the new FT mechanic, in my area we are not using the new mechanic. I realize that switching may not have been the proper mechanic, but maybe for GM standpoint...?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Rich,

From the O.P. it looks to me like he called three fouls within a one minute span...

FWIW, I agree with you on the T......try to talk them out of it first, and if that doesn't work we always have the T to resort to.....

Yup. If he's using the new NFHS mechanic and they're shooting fouls, though, he's going to make the same call 3 times in a row. See the thread I started.

Sorry, I skimmed right past that part.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jburt

I agree that a quick word should be enough to diffuse the situation, but perception can be reality and sometimes we need to let our partners get a call, especially when the mechanics call for it.

edit:
Rich, just saw your other thread about the new FT mechanic, in my area we are not using the new mechanic. I realize that switching may not have been the proper mechanic, but maybe for GM standpoint...?

I agree that in this situation, forcing a switch may have been useful, but it's covering up the problem rather than addressing it. They should've shut the coach down earlier.

I learned a lesson back in the mid-1990s. I was asked to do a women's college scrimmage and I treated it like a scrimmage. And the teams hated each other and the one coach told his guards to hand-check the hell out of the other team (I found out later) until the officials called it. Instead of just calling a few fouls, I tried to adjust to a level of play I was unfamiliar with and was eaten alive by both coaches. Since then, I don't let players direct players with hands and I don't let coaches whine about this kind of play when it's not illegal or when we're not calling to their liking.

If it's a lower level game, it's a chance to work on GM skills. "Coach, I'll take care of this, you coach." Walk away. If he doesn't get the hint, whack him. I forget that at the varsity level, coaches usually get the hint or they don't keep their jobs long.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

...or at least that's how I'm sure it looked to B's coach. I normally don't care how I "appear" to anyone, but this situation bothered me a little.

Sit: Last couple minutes of a well played boys V game. Team A is up by 5. Team B is playing very aggressively against A's clock draining weave, taking chances for a steal but not afraid to foul. A's coach, right behind me (I'm T), starts to yell "HAND CHECK!" any time an A player starts to dribble and B is close. Second time through weave he yells "HAND CHECK!" again. He happens to be correct, A1 was displaced by a push from B1. I blow my whistle and turn to report while partner lines players up for bonus FTs. I'm a little annoyed with the LOUD cry but forget about it quickly.

20 seconds later, next time A has the ball, same thing happens. "HAND CHECK!" TWEET! Hand check foul. Now, this time I turn around and B coach gives me the "Just because he's crying for it doesn't mean you have to call it."

This happens a third time in a row within a 1 minute span. And now I'm aware of how this may appear (doesn't help that I'm the calling official all three times).

Question, would any of you handled this situation specially? Would any of you perhaps said anything to A's coach about toning it down? Since the home team had the ball when A's coach was yelling it was quiet enough for the whole gym to hear. I'm sure it appeared (to some biased viewers) that my whistle was prompted by the A coach's plea. When in fact, he was just anticipating B being too aggressive and fouling and I was, of course, reacting to the players' actions.

Don't sweat it. A simple, "Why are you yelling when you are getting calls? Just stop." would most likely work. The film will show the other coach the the calls were correct. Film is your best friend when you are right.