3 seconds....THREE SECONDS!!!

[representing]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm always amused at the fans who don't understand the nuance of the rule. Like last night when the ball was being shot, rebounded, shot, rebounded....some joker is SCREAMING at the top of his lungs how we apparently can't count to 3. Girls assistant coach thinks the semicircle above the 3 point line is part of the lane. Another fan wants 3 seconds cause "she was in the lane six seconds" even though the ball was never even in the frontcourt for 3.

And in the game before ours (another varsity game in a holiday tournament), when I was sitting back and hearing the stuff from the crowd -- wow, I've never heard such stupidity. And not only are they wrong and stupid, they feel it's necessary, their right, and their duty to scream at the officials the entire game. I swear it wasn't this way just 10 years ago.

Back to 3 second violations -- And yet, I called another one last night. This, folks is FOUR for the season in a dozen games. Don't tell me I don't pay attention to the POEs.

four this season? I don't know if I've called any more than four in my high school career. It's rarely called around here, we just tell the players to get the hell out of there. If they don't after one or two warnings, or they receive the ball while we are warning them, then we call 3 seconds.

But I agree with you on the fans situation. A good one that a buddy of mine told me was that an old guy was complaining about 3 seconds (a fan). During a dead ball or time out, he went over and said "hey, we don't call that no more". haha I thought that was funny, and the guy didn't say a word after that.

[bas2456]

Today in one of my games I could hear a fan, throughout the entire game, screaming for three seconds.

Problem was, 95% of the time, there was nobody in the lane. The other 5%, it was a defensive player. I hope he wasn't looking for defensive three seconds

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Today in one of my games I could hear a fan, throughout the entire game, screaming for three seconds.

Fan: "Three Seconds!!!"
Translation: "The team for which I am biased is behind and I'm vocalizing my frustration at you for their lack of skill and athleticism. I can't yell at the other team because they're better than the one I'm rooting for."
OR
Fan: "Three Seconds!!!"
Translation: "My team is ahead but I'm so insecure that I can't bear to just sit here and watch them gradually throw the game away so I'm blaming you--it sure can't be my son's team's fault so it must be yours."
Root Reason:
The basis for the word [B]fan[B] is and will always be the term fanatic. And, nowadays anyway, to be one thusly fanatical carries with it the prerequisite of bias and favoritism. We officials just happen to be the easiest ones onto whom to lay the misplaced blame. It's all part of living in a society that's invested the better part of four or five decades in the spirit of antiauthoritarianism.
At least that's my take on it. I understand it, therefore I've learned to put up with it by ignoring it.

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Fan: "Three Seconds!!!"
Translation: "The team for which I am biased is behind and I'm vocalizing my frustration at you for their lack of skill and athleticism. I can't yell at the other team because they're better than the one I'm rooting for."
OR
Fan: "Three Seconds!!!"
Translation: "My team is ahead but I'm so insecure that I can't bear to just sit here and watch them gradually throw the game away so I'm blaming you--it sure can't be my son's team's fault so it must be yours."
Root Reason:
The basis for the word [B]fan[B] is and will always be the term fanatic. And, nowadays anyway, to be one thusly fanatical carries with it the prerequisite of bias and favoritism. We officials just happen to be the easiest ones onto whom to lay the misplaced blame. It's all part of living in a society that's invested the better part of four or five decades in the spirit of antiauthoritarianism.
At least that's my take on it. I understand it, therefore I've learned to put up with it by ignoring it.

IMO , its the " its all about me " syndrome most of the time.

[Adam]

We're expected to tell them to get out; but not to be afraid to call it if they don't. I don't remember if I called it last year, but I had one in my first game this year.

[muxbule]

This was a game stopper that I was told early on to avoid so you tell them to clear the lane or get out. Only one coach ever told me to quit coaching his kids when I attempted to have his player move out of the lane. OK coach....next time down and a few more times in the game...3 seconds and we're going the other way.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by muxbule

This was a game stopper that I was told early on to avoid so you tell them to clear the lane or get out. Only one coach ever told me to quit coaching his kids when I attempted to have his player move out of the lane. OK coach....next time down and a few more times in the game...3 seconds and we're going the other way.

Guys, I hate to take someone else's role here, but this is exactly why it's a POE this year. I talk early. I don't talk the whole game.

Of course, my four this year plus my maybe 2 last year plus zero in the previous three years means I've averaged about 1 a year. Not exactly a role model am I?

None today in my girls' game, but the home coach wanted one right after I called a 5 second (holding) violation. He said, "if you're going to call violations, you need to call ALL of them."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by muxbule

This was a game stopper that I was told early on to avoid so you tell them to clear the lane or get out.

Every time we blow our whistle, it's a "game stopper". Are you suggesting that we should never call anything?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Every time we blow our whistle, it's a "game stopper". Are you suggesting that we should never call anything?

More diplomatic than me, I see.

The phrase "game interrupter" or "game stopper" has morphed from its original intention (passing on contact that doesn't cause an advantage/disadvantage) to "don't call anything." I've even heard people say not to call traveling cause it's a game interrupter.

Of course it interrupts the game!

The higher the level you work, the fewer times you'll have 3-second violations. I went almost 3 years without one and I wasn't not calling them on purpose.

And we can work on preventing them, but at the varsity level, I gotta admit I don't spend much time talking people in and out of the lane -- if you don't get it by then, there's not much helping you. I will talk at post play early -- "Straight up!" -- that kind of thing, mainly to let them know I'm watching them off ball -- but 3-seconds? If it gets to the point I've called the violation, they should've known better.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

More diplomatic than me, I see.

The phrase "game interrupter" or "game stopper" has morphed from its original intention (passing on contact that doesn't cause an advantage/disadvantage) to "don't call anything." I've even heard people say not to call traveling cause it's a game interrupter.

Of course it interrupts the game!

The higher the level you work, the fewer times you'll have 3-second violations. I went almost 3 years without one and I wasn't not calling them on purpose.

And we can work on preventing them, but at the varsity level, I gotta admit I don't spend much time talking people in and out of the lane -- if you don't get it by then, there's not much helping you. I will talk at post play early -- "Straight up!" -- that kind of thing, mainly to let them know I'm watching them off ball -- but 3-seconds? If it gets to the point I've called the violation, they should've known better.

I've been working on that 'diplomatic' thingy, Rich. Not sure that I've got the hang of it yet.

And we share the exact same thoughts on the dreaded "game interrupters". The concept wasn't bad, but the interpretation in a some cases leaves a lot to be desired. Originally it was just another way of saying incidental contact.

And I also agree on the 3-seconds call. It's just another call. Call it when you feel it's warranted..and if you feel it's not warranted, then don't call it. But if you do have to call it, it doesn't make you a failure as an official.

[26 Year Gap]

I call it more frequently...maybe once every 5-6 games. But if the kids are moving through and getting out when "asked" it doesn't really make sense to whistle it. If a kid just stands in there and makes no effort to move out or gains an advantage by receiving an entry pass for an easy 2, then it gets called.

I will add that my first year, that was my favorite 'gotcha' call.

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Every time we blow our whistle, it's a "game stopper". Are you suggesting that we should never call anything?

I'm pretty sure you know what I am talking about and that is not what I am suggesting. back at you.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by muxbule

I'm pretty sure you know what I am talking about and that is not what I am suggesting. back at you.

JR was using some hyperbole to make a point. Every time we blow our whistles, it stops the game. Some refer to certain calls as "game interrupters" and others call them "game stoppers," and JR's point is "WTF makes one violation a game interrupter and another acceptable?"

It seems pretty arbitrary, to be honest; especially when I hear it applied to travels and palming and 3 seconds. You never see it applied to OOB calls, or 5 second counts. Why not? The game is stopped for just as long and for the same reason; to give the ball to the erstwhile defenders.

His main point, however, that you didn't address, is that the term originally applied to incidental contact that gets called a foul by the officials. Contact that may look illegal but in actuality creates no advantage, so it should be ignored. That's a game interrupter, IMO.

[Jurassic Referee]

A "game interrupter" is any call made that the official using the term might happen to disagree with.

The only true game interrupters are bad calls.... a la calling a foul for incidental contact.....or in the case of 3-seconds, calling it strictly by rule instead of by standard practice. And note that even then standard practice may vary from area to area.

Why not just say "don't make bad calls"?

Muxbule, I wasn't questioning you per se. I was just questioning the general use of that particular term; it kinda turns my crank every time that I see it. Rich and Snaqs knew the point that I was trying to make and both gave a very good explanation of it imo.