Disconcertion from bench

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

There was an NFHS POE issued several years ago that confirmed that you could call disconcertion on the opponent's bench, and that you could also call a team technical foul if you felt that the disconcertion was unsporting in nature.

Agree. Why can't I find it? Help.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. Why can't I find it? Help.

It's 2005-2006 (I don't have a soft copy, sorry).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by grunewar

It's 2005-2006 (I don't have a soft copy, sorry).

I do. It's POE 2C. That one refers to "players" only though, which means the 5 legally on the court, by rule. The older POE referred to the whole team, which includes bench personnel by definition(rule 4-34-2 for BillyMac).

Same old problem. The only definitive answer to some of the questions asked here lie only in long-forgotten archives. They are still valid but a lot of officials aren't aware of them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Same old problem. The only definitive answer to some of the questions asked here lie only in long-forgotten archives. They are still valid but a lot of officials aren't aware of them.

Especially young, inexperienced officials, who don't have access to, or realize the importance of, old rule books, and casebooks. Even if they did, they still wouldn't have access to old annual interpretations.

No need to worry, Nevadaref will be along in a few minutes to help us out. He'll find it. I guarantee it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No need to worry, Nevadaref will be along in a few minutes to help us out. He'll find it. I guarantee it.

Say what?

I just cited the damn thing verbatim for you out of POE #2 in the 2001-02 rule book. See above.

Lah me.......

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Say what?

I was referring to a casebook play, annual interpretation, or Point of Emphasis, that specifically states that bench personnel can be called for a disconcertion violation. I believe that such a citation exists, but I just can't seem to put my finger on it. All I've got is a rule citation:

NFHS 9-1-3 After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower:
c. No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was referring to a casebook play, annual interpretation, or Point of Emphasis, that specifically states that bench personnel can be called for a disconcertion violation. I believe that such a citation exists, but I just can't seem to put my finger on it. All I've got is a rule citation:

NFHS 9-1-3 After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower:
c. No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower.

Sigh....

I gave you the relevant POE but you can't comprehend it.

Opponents are ALL members of the other team.

The POE on disconcertion that I cited above from 2001-02 said that a player OR a team can also be given a technical foul for disconcertion.

Read rule 4-34. A "player" is one of the 5 team members who are legally on the court at any given time. Ergo, according to that POE you can call a player for disconcertion, and you can also give the player a T" if the disconcertion is persistent or unsporting. Also according to 4-34, bench personnel are all individuals who are a part of or affiliated with the team(subs, coaches, managers, etc.). Ergo, also according to that POE you can call bench personnel for disconcertion and you can also give the team(bench personnel) a "T" if the disconcertion from the bench is persistent or unsporting. The POE deliberately cited BOTH the player AND the team, NOT just a player.

You have to connect the dots. That's exactly what the POE that I cited is telling you. There ain't anything else anywhere else and you don't need it anyway. That POE is definitive enough. And if you don't believe me, may I suggest that you take it to Jackie Loube or somebody and ask them. There's nothing more that I can do to explain it to you.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I do. It's POE 2C. That one refers to "players" only though, which means the 5 legally on the court, by rule. The older POE referred to the whole team, which includes bench personnel by definition(rule 4-34-2 for BillyMac).

Same old problem. The only definitive answer to some of the questions asked here lie only in long-forgotten archives. They are still valid but a lot of officials aren't aware of them.

Thanks Jurassic. You're right - this is the one I referred to and it doesn't specifically mention the bench - just "opponents outside the arc."

C. Disconcertion. Free-throw disconcertion must be carefully monitored. Of particular concern is when the free throw will become dead (first of two or first two of three). Defensive players often employ tactics which serve no
other purpose than to disconcert the shooter during free throws (“boxing out” the free thrower off the free-throw line, waving arms, yelling instructions to teammates, etc.). Another increasing trend is opponents outside the arc saying things to the thrower. With team free-throw percentages hovering in the mid-60’s on average, teams welcome a second chance free throw. They deserve it if disconcertion occurs and officials must call it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. Why can't I find it? Help.

POE #2 in the 2001/02 rule book---"The committee emphasizes that disconcertion is a violation and may result in a substitute throw. If persistent or deemed unsporting, the TEAM/player may also be penalized with a technical foul."