T Up a Fan?!?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, you are.

It is so like you to try to turn such a statement around and point it at an official who insists that people don't go where they shouldn't. You simply don't grasp the argument.

You probably have a picture of an official running over trying to stop the people from coming out of the stands. That is not realistic.

What is realistic is for the official to find a far away location until the situation finishes and then to assess whatever penalties are necessary for the conduct. That is a big difference from being personally involved, and that is what makes the people who run over "self-important" and the official not.

So you stand back quietly and watch when Mom comes out to help her son up. When it turns out to be an ankle sprain, the son sits on the bench with an ice pack, but Mom has to leave? And the other team gets free throws??

Thanks, Mom.

[gslefeb]

There are two questions in this arguement.

One: Do you think Parents should come onto the court to see their injured Child?

Two: If Parent does come onto the court without being beckoned, would you give them a T?


I would rather the Parent's STAY in the stands, until waived onto the court by either me or the Coach.

I would not give a T to a parent in any case.

[chseagle]

A parent can be involved throughout the whole process, however when medical personnel are directly involved, the parents are to be as active bystanders (answering medical history questions), not being in the middle of everything getting in the way.

If no medical personnel are available, the parent can become more directly involved.

I'm surprised it's not a regulation for all high school athletic events that EMS must be present. Apparently the NCAA has this regulation, as is what I heard after the unfortunate incident with Derrick Roland.

Unfortunately not all schools have the luxury of having Athletic Trainers available to them at all times.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Am I the only one who sees this statement as ironic?

No.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What happens when your child is transported to the hospital for surgery? Does the surgeon permit mom and dad into the operating room? People really need to get over their sense of self-importance and remain where they belong.

Bad analogy, completely different situation. In this case, the parent has given their consent to the surgeon either by the medical waiver form, or much more likely by the forms signed at the hospital. In any case, consent has been given by the parent to the doctor. In the case of a player down, there is nobody on that court who the parent has given their consent to. Mom and Dad are still ultimate authority. They can refuse the surgery even against the best medical advice.

Your idea of who might want to consider their sense of self importance is a good idea, as often our best ideas are the ones we realize are for and about our selves, even when we originally though they were intended for others.

This hypothetical situation has nothing to do with any sort of sense of self importance. The very idea is an injury and insult to intelligent linear thought. When a baby comes out of your vagina, there's a very strong emotional attachment that can cause an adult to forget all about silly rules when they see their child hurt on the floor. THis is of the deep care, concern, and passion a parent has for their child, which has zero to do with a sense of self importance.

I know I'm a howler monkey, so automatically I have no credibility, but I've read a lot of your comments, and I used to think you were a pretty sharp referee who exhibited a good measure of smarts. But your comments in this thread are just bizzare.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Smitty

OK I give up.

Smart move, Smitty. NevadaRef has tunnel vision, is never open to the possibility he could be wrong, and is entirely too dogmatic. Personally, I think he would make a very poor partner.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Smart move, Smitty. NevadaRef has tunnel vision, is never open to the possibility he could be wrong, and is entirely too dogmatic. Personally, I think he would make a very poor partner.

Merry Christmas to you too.

BTW I read an interesting sentiment lately...

"We have to do a much better job of creating a zone of predictability for players and coaches, of making officiating more of a science and less of an art."
"I came up at a time when refereeing was all feel. But coaches want absolutes. And referees should want absolutes."
John Adams, NCAA Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officiating

It seems that being dogmatic has a future.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I won't, but security might.

You don't belong out there. It's that simple. I don't understand why people have such a hard time grasping this. The playing court is for the players and officials, no one else. PERIOD.

When there is an injury the appropriate people are beckoned on to attend to that individual.

Hopefully Santa will leave a sense of perspective under the tree for you tonight.

[gslefeb]

Question:
"What skills does the average parent have which is going to help that child?"

Answer:
Medical History


A1 gets injuried, - Ref beckons A's Coach onto the court, a parent and a Doc rush the court to help without prior authorization. Is that one or two T's?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

Question:
"What skills does the average parent have which is going to help that child?"

Answer:
Medical History

That information would be on the form filled out by the parent/guardian at the beginning of the season.

[just another ref]

Okay, no more name calling and sarcasm.............for now.

All these references to medical release forms, liability, and proper ways to treat injuries have one thing in common, they have nothing to do with basketball. A player is injured. The game stops from my perspective and the injured player gets top priority. If both parents, the trainer, the personal physician, and the priest all come out to attend, I don't see the negative effect on the game.

When the injury issue is resolved, my partner(s) and I will resume our duties.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Okay, no more name calling and sarcasm.............for now.

All these references to medical release forms, liability, and proper ways to treat injuries have one thing in common, they have nothing to do with basketball. A player is injured. The game stops from my perspective and the injured player gets top priority. If both parents, the trainer, the personal physician, and the priest all come out to attend, I don't see the negative effect on the game.

When the injury issue is resolved, my partner(s) and I will resume our duties.

You think this way because you are not well-versed in the rules. Too bad that you don't read more and write less.

2-2-3 . . . The officials’ jurisdiction extends through periods when the game
may be momentarily stopped for any reason.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I won't, but security might.

You don't belong out there. It's that simple. I don't understand why people have such a hard time grasping this. The playing court is for the players and officials, no one else. PERIOD.

What do you personally do in cases where the stands are only a few feet from the edge of the court, and the fans are constantly walking onto the edge of the playing court durring play,as they go from stands to snack bar, or stands to the bathrooms, etc? This happens all the time in tight little gyms. Do you stop play and administer justice Nevada? Do you have an over-zealous CHighSchooleagle type watching closely for these court violations, and tip you off? Or do you divert your own attention away from the game to watch for these violations of your's and the players soveriegn space?

Do you use your common sense and good judgement to ignore these violations of the playing court space as long as they are brief and unatrusive to the game? Then when it actually matters, when there is actual emotion attached to the situation -as in a player down- do you then choose to step in and do something about it?

Seems like a pretty silly question, doesn't it? It's actually less silly than your position about a parent coming out of the stands to provide comfort and concern to their child.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

What do you personally do in cases where the stands are only a few feet from the edge of the court, and the fans are constantly walking onto the edge of the playing court durring play,as they go from stands to snack bar, or stands to the bathrooms, etc? This happens all the time in tight little gyms.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't officiate in any such gyms in my local area.