No T, no credibility?

[dacodee]

Originally Posted by lmeadski

What do you all think are the consequences for NOT giving a T when a coach crosses the line? I coached for a number of years before reffing (this is my 3rd year doing varsity, 5th overall). I have been slow to give Ts, giving the coaches much rope. Do you feel the coaches lose respect for refs that don't whack them when appropriate? Or, do they appreciate a ref that is willing to listen and be patient with them when they blow a gasket? I used to think it was the latter, now I am beginning to question that.

If you think a coach crossed the line, you have to take care of business. You have to ask yourself, which one is going to make the game a better game, "Give a little rope or Whack'em"?

More times than not, talking to the coach or allowing him to say what's on his mind (within reason) will take care of it. You may have to admit you missed it or didn't see it the way he did. "Coach, I hear you... I didn't see it that way or I may even have missed it, but we're going to move on." This is only if you're talking with a level headed coach. Now, if he's a hot head from the door, you may not want to give him the pleasure of speaking with him. "Coach, I've heard enough (with the stop sign so everyone can see). If he continues, Whak'em!

Good Luck!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dacodee

"Coach, I've heard enough (with the stop sign so everyone can see). If he continues, Whak'em!

Why does everyone seem to want "everyone to see" the warning? I don't understand this logic. If you think the stop sign helps to difuse, fine (I'm channeling my inner tomegun here), we can disagree on that. I just don't get this whole "everyone saw the warning so now I can ring him up" thought process.

We aren't required, or even asked, to warn a coach before issuing a T for unsporting behavior. Personally, I would much rather have a quiet word with the coach rather than escalate to a public admonishment.

I just don't get it.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does everyone seem to want "everyone to see" the warning?

After my P and I completed our F/JV games last week, we watched the first half of the V game.

I was watching something else and my P said to me - "The C is going to ring-up the H coach any minute now"....... A few minutes later, "TWEET!" Whack!

Whether it was a public admonition (stop sign), the look, a talk, a comment, whatever, my P saw it coming.....

By the end of the quarter both coaches were seated and the gym was a lot quieter.

You'll develop your own threshold of what you will allow or not. But, don't let them "cross the line" or you'll be walked on.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does everyone seem to want "everyone to see" the warning? I don't understand this logic. If you think the stop sign helps to difuse, fine (I'm channeling my inner tomegun here), we can disagree on that. I just don't get this whole "everyone saw the warning so now I can ring him up" thought process.

We aren't required, or even asked, to warn a coach before issuing a T for unsporting behavior. Personally, I would much rather have a quiet word with the coach rather than escalate to a public admonishment.

I just don't get it.

I have this same question often. Those who have recommended it to me in the past (in clinics/camps/pregames/over beers) believe it is important to get it on film as much as anything. That way if/when a coach complains to the AD who calls the assignor who calls you, you can prove that you provided a warning.

If you work in an area where coaches/ADs have big influence and you need to be able to "prove" to your assignor that a T was warranted, I get it. But if your assignor backs you up on your word, then all the public "stop" sign does is show up the coach and have as much potential to create a more adversarial situation as a better situation, IMO.

Write me down for preferring the quiet word.

[dacodee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does everyone seem to want "everyone to see" the warning?

Simple... Depending on where you are and who's in the building, you may want everyone to see that coach has been warned. Besides, when the other coach see's this, he knows you've addressed it.

Also, it's almost always the coaches word against yours. If the AD/Principal or even the media see's you've warned the coach for something, the coach doesn't have much leg to stand on when you send in your report. It also allows your partner to know what's happening, just in case you haven't had a chance to tell him/her. When he has a problem with the same coach, he can bypass any warnings and go straight to the business, "WHACK"!

Peace

[Adam]

The stop sign doesn't prove the T was warranted; all it does is show that you've publicly warned the coach. So what? If you have an assigner who doesn't believe your word over the coach's, it's not going to help.

Coach, "sure, he warned me for asking a polite question. Then, I turned around and sat down and he called a technical foul."

There's nothing on the tape that's going to prove jack sh!t.

[dacodee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The stop sign doesn't prove the T was warranted; all it does is show that you've publicly warned the coach. So what? If you have an assigner who doesn't believe your word over the coach's, it's not going to help.

Coach, "sure, he warned me for asking a polite question. Then, I turned around and sat down and he called a technical foul."

There's nothing on the tape that's going to prove jack sh!t.

Perception, Perception, Perception... In that order...

It doesn't matter what was said. Coach was warned for something and the entire building saw it. Whenever or whatever coach gets whacked for, everyone knows he was warned earlier.

With regards to my assigner believing me or not, I'm not too concerned about that because my game was well managed by taking care of business and going about it in an appropriate manner. I gave the Perception that coach was warned for something. I/My partner whacked coach because the Perception was that he got a warning for something he/she said/did earlier. Beside, if you whack'em without a public warning, everyone in the building is wondering why coached got whacked.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dacodee

Perception, Perception, Perception... In that order...

It doesn't matter what was said. Coach was warned for something and the entire building saw it. Whenever or whatever coach gets whacked for, everyone knows he was warned earlier.

With regards to my assigner believing me or not, I'm not too concerned about that because my game was well managed by taking care of business and going about it in an appropriate manner. I gave the Perception that coach was warned for something. I/My partner whacked coach because the Perception was that he got a warning for something he/she said/did earlier. Beside, if you whack'em without a public warning, everyone in the building is wondering why coached got whacked.

Every T in Colorado comes with a report, so the only people that really matter will get my side of the story. As for the people in the crowd, if I don't care what they think about my lack of 3 second calls, why am I going to care what they think about my technical fouls?

Whose perception are you concerned about? If it's not your assigner, it's got to be someone.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Every T in Colorado comes with a report, so the only people that really matter will get my side of the story. As for the people in the crowd, if I don't care what they think about my lack of 3 second calls, why am I going to care what they think about my technical fouls?

Whose perception are you concerned about? If it's not your assigner, it's got to be someone.

I'd get writers cramp.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by dacodee

Perception, Perception, Perception... In that order...

It doesn't matter what was said. Coach was warned for something and the entire building saw it. Whenever or whatever coach gets whacked for, everyone knows he was warned earlier.

With regards to my assigner believing me or not, I'm not too concerned about that because my game was well managed by taking care of business and going about it in an appropriate manner. I gave the Perception that coach was warned for something. I/My partner whacked coach because the Perception was that he got a warning for something he/she said/did earlier. Beside, if you whack'em without a public warning, everyone in the building is wondering why coached got whacked.

I don't worry about what everyone in the building thinks. If that's why you're doing it, I disagree with the practice even more. Some officials feel the need to be able to show on tape to their assignor they did something. And, some assignors promote this procedure. If so, you do it because you work for them.

That said, I'm not doing it to please the crowd. If the other coach is upset at that coach's antics, I can communicate that I addressed it. I just don't see how a very public admonishment is better for the in-game relationship than a verbal warning that only the coach hears. He then doesn't feel he got shown up in public, which is what we whack coaches for.