BC violation on tipped pass by offense

[CoachJW]

Sideline inbound play. While in the front court, an offensive player makes contact with the ball on the inbounds pass and tips it into the back court, where he recovers it. BC violation?

[just another ref]

No. In the play you describe team control was not established in the frontcourt.

[BillyMac]

During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not a backcourt violations. In both cases team control, a player holding or dribbling the ball, has not yet been established.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by CoachJW

Sideline inbound play. While in the front court, an offensive player makes contact with the ball on the inbounds pass and tips it into the back court, where he recovers it. BC violation?

The only way I could see this being properly called a backcourt violation would be if the official deemed that said "tip" was the start of a dribble. If both feet were in the front court when the dribble started, then the touch for the second dribble in the backcourt would have constituted a violation.

Such an interpretation by the official would require that the official be certain that the dribble had actually started as opposed to a bat or tap of the ball without actually controlling the ball in the case of the dribble.

Certainly if the ball had bounced far away from the "tipper" this should not be considered the start of the dribble -- it bounced twice before being touched again, etc.

[CoachJW]

Thanks I appreciate the feedback.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

The only way I could see this being properly called a backcourt violation would be if the official deemed that said "tip" was the start of a dribble. If both feet were in the front court when the dribble started, then the touch for the second dribble in the backcourt would have constituted a violation.

Such an interpretation by the official would require that the official be certain that the dribble had actually started as opposed to a bat or tap of the ball without actually controlling the ball in the case of the dribble.

Certainly if the ball had bounced far away from the "tipper" this should not be considered the start of the dribble -- it bounced twice before being touched again, etc.

Why make OP something it's not? The situation is that it was tipped.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Why make OP something it's not? The situation is that it was tipped.

Read my post and the initial post. Other than trying to stir up trouble, what would your point be???????

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

...trying to stir up trouble...

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by fullor30

. . . The situation is that it was tipped.

Had one last Friday where I judged a situation "more than a tip"; I was confident in my call, but seek your verification.
In an attempt to rebound a missed shot, rebounder A1, from in front of his own basket, clearly "more than tipped" the rebound when he, while still in the air, with one hand pushed the ball back in an attempt to get it to A2 positioned near the top of the key. The ball went over A2's head and into his backcourt, after which A2 went and picked the ball up in his backcourt.
I whistled a backcourt violation, deeming A1's push of the ball to be player control, thus team control.
Given the definition of player control ("...when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds"), was I correct?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Given the definition of player control ("...when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds"), was I correct?

Was he holding it? Was he dribbling it? If so, you were correct. If not, you were not correct. It's your call (pun intended).

If, when he "pushed" the ball, you thought it came to rest in his hand, then you probably had a "hold".

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

If, when he "pushed" the ball, you thought it came to rest in his hand, then you probably had a "hold".

In the midst of the action, I never considered, "Did the ball come to rest in his hand?" The immediate thought I had was, "Hey, he controlled that ball when he pushed it back toward his backcourt."
Having reviewed the definition of player control as a result of this thread, I was beginning to question the call. A momentary in-motion "rest" did occur -- again, he "more than tapped" the ball-he pushed it -- which seems to have fulfilled the definition.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Had one last Friday where I judged a situation "more than a tip"; I was confident in my call, but seek your verification.
In an attempt to rebound a missed shot, rebounder A1, from in front of his own basket, clearly "more than tipped" the rebound when he, while still in the air, with one hand pushed the ball back in an attempt to get it to A2 positioned near the top of the key. The ball went over A2's head and into his backcourt, after which A2 went and picked the ball up in his backcourt.
I whistled a backcourt violation, deeming A1's push of the ball to be player control, thus team control.
Given the definition of player control ("...when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds"), was I correct?

If A1, one of his teammates, or his Head Coach had requested a time-out while the hand was in contact with the ball would you have granted it?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If A1, one of his teammates, or his Head Coach had requested a time-out while the hand was in contact with the ball would you have granted it?

I understand and appreciate your question. The actual time during which I deemed there to have been player control was too brief to have granted a request for a timeout.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I understand and appreciate your question. The actual time during which I deemed there to have been player control was too brief to have granted a request for a timeout.

Then BY YOUR DETERMINATION player control was not established by A1. Therefore, there was no team control, so you made an incorrect decision in calling a backcourt violation.

See the point?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I understand and appreciate your question. The actual time during which I deemed there to have been player control was too brief to have granted a request for a timeout.

The point is not whether it was feasible to actually have requested a TO during the short window of time; the question asked is wether there was such a window.

Consider this, if A's coach is requesting TO, repeatedly, during this process, would you have granted it. The point of Nevada's question is simple, unless there was a window, no matter how brief, during which a TO could be granted, then you never had player control. Without player control, there is no team control, and thus no BC violation.

A controlled tap does not give you player control. If he grabbed it and threw it, then you were right.

On this play, I'd err on the side of no control.