Mistake...

[showbo]

Alright, for starters I am a first year official. I now have 6 games under my belt and in the last game; I think I made a huge, huge mistake. 8th grade boys game, game is 33-32. Team A takes a shot with 5 seconds left, misses and Team B grabs the ball and falls to the floor, he clearly has possession, no travel just yet.

I HEAR Team B coach yell 'time-out' split second later Team A player contested the ball, I blow whistle and call held ball. I have no idea why, but with 2 seconds left I let Team B have the time-out and the ball. Basically I changed my own call. Timer is well-respected football coach and he ridicules me for changing the call. I just tell him I heard the time-out, and that was that.

The final score didn't change, Team A wins, but afterwards I was just thinking really hard about what just happened. Again, 1st year not 100% sure on the rulebook by heart, or even remotely close to knowing it by heart but I feel I should have kept the held ball call right?

BTW if I keep held ball call, Team A gets the inbound.


Oscar

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by showbo

Team B grabs the ball and falls to the floor, he clearly has possession, no travel just yet.

Why not? If a player has possession and touches the floor inbounds with any part of the body other than a hand or foot, it's a travel. This is where you should have blown the whistle and called the travel.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by showbo

I HEAR Team B coach yell 'time-out' split second later Team A player contested the ball, I blow whistle and call held ball.

As my esteemed colleague points out, from your description this indeed may have been a travel. But if it was not, sounds perfectly all right to me. You say you called held ball, but apparently you mean you signaled held ball, but then granted the timeout instead because in your judgment it occurred first. A mechanical mistake to be sure, but better to get the call right. A signal alone means nothing.

[Adam]

1. If he fell to the floor after he grabbed the ball, he traveled.
2. If the timeout was requested prior to the opponent getting his hands on the ball, you did the right thing by granting the TO; even if, as jar states, the mechanics were a little shaky.
3. I don't care who the timer is, he's not going to ridicule me during the game. He would be replaced.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by snaqwells

3. I don't care who the timer is, he's not going to ridicule me during the game. He would be replaced.

amen!!

[Bad Zebra]

1. With regard to the held ball...you ultimately got it right. The mechanics will improve in time. Don't beat yourself up over that.
2. what they said about the travel...if you called that, the time out/held ball thing is irrelevant.
3. The fact that it's gnawing at you is a good sign. Your desire to make the correct call is admirable. You'll get that play right next time.
4. As your confidence in your calls increase, you'll tell the coach to stuff it because a)he is biased because he's a coach and ...b) If he's at the table, he shouldn't be expressing his opinion.

Good luck the rest of the way.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

3. I don't care who the timer is, he's not going to ridicule me during the game. He would be replaced.

To me, it all depends on what the ridicule was...
Though I agree in principle, the stuation warrants some "game management" thought.
5 seconds left in an 8th grade game, and you suggest taking the time to replace a timer?
Maybe a better option is to walk over during the dead ball and have a CLEAR conversation with him about "table" manners, then move on....he's embarrassed, hopefully learning the same lesson as being removed, and the game ends in a timely way.......if earlier in the game? well thats different.

[Adam]

Agreed.

[showbo]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Why not? If a player has possession and touches the floor inbounds with any part of the body other than a hand or foot, it's a travel. This is where you should have blown the whistle and called the travel.

To be honest, that competely slipped my mind, but that is good to hear. When I replay the situation in my head, it was clearly a travel.

Originally Posted by just another ref

As my esteemed colleague points out, from your description this indeed may have been a travel. But if it was not, sounds perfectly all right to me. You say you called held ball, but apparently you mean you signaled held ball, but then granted the timeout instead because in your judgment it occurred first. A mechanical mistake to be sure, but better to get the call right. A signal alone means nothing.

Thank you for that input, makes me feel a little better about what I did, minus the whole missing the 100% travel.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

1. If he fell to the floor after he grabbed the ball, he traveled.
2. If the timeout was requested prior to the opponent getting his hands on the ball, you did the right thing by granting the TO; even if, as jar states, the mechanics were a little shaky.
3. I don't care who the timer is, he's not going to ridicule me during the game. He would be replaced.

Again, on the basis of missing the clear travel call, thank you. (Thinking there was no travel to begin with) I am glad I would have done the right thing, just missed the mechanics.

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

1. With regard to the held ball...you ultimately got it right. The mechanics will improve in time. Don't beat yourself up over that.
2. what they said about the travel...if you called that, the time out/held ball thing is irrelevant.
3. The fact that it's gnawing at you is a good sign. Your desire to make the correct call is admirable. You'll get that play right next time.
4. As your confidence in your calls increase, you'll tell the coach to stuff it because a)he is biased because he's a coach and ...b) If he's at the table, he shouldn't be expressing his opinion.

Good luck the rest of the way.

Thanks, it was bothering me for a few days but I feel like if I were put in a similar situation, I will do a better job next time around.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Why not? If a player has possession and touches the floor inbounds with any part of the body other than a hand or foot, it's a travel. This is where you should have blown the whistle and called the travel.

For future reference, This is ONLY if the player is on his/her foot. If the player was in the air, grabbed the ball and then fell down on his/her leg, knees, butt, back, etc. there is no travel unless he changes which part of his body makes contact with the floor after having stopped moving (i.e. falls on his knees, then before dribbling he lifts a knee up and places his foot down to get up).

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by representing

For future reference, This is ONLY if the player is on his/her foot. If the player was in the air, grabbed the ball and then fell down on his/her leg, knees, butt, back, etc. there is no travel unless he changes which part of his body makes contact with the floor after having stopped moving (i.e. falls on his knees, then before dribbling he lifts a knee up and places his foot down to get up).

Rules reference, please.

I'll save you the trouble and point out 4.44.5 Situation A.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by representing

For future reference, This is ONLY if the player is on his/her foot. If the player was in the air, grabbed the ball and then fell down on his/her leg, knees, butt, back, etc. there is no travel unless he changes which part of his body makes contact with the floor after having stopped moving (i.e. falls on his knees, then before dribbling he lifts a knee up and places his foot down to get up).

You do realize you are absolutely, totally wrong, don't you.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

For future reference, This is ONLY if the player is on his/her foot. If the player was in the air, grabbed the ball and then fell down on his/her leg, knees, butt, back, etc. there is no travel unless he changes which part of his body makes contact with the floor after having stopped moving (i.e. falls on his knees, then before dribbling he lifts a knee up and places his foot down to get up).

Not to pile on, but, well, you're wrong. An airborne player who falls on his butt is guilty of traveling. I've made this very call several times.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not to pile on, but, well, you're wrong. An airborne player who falls on his butt is guilty of traveling. I've made this very call several times.

And they don't even have to move their pivot cheek.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not to pile on, but, well, you're wrong. An airborne player who falls on his butt is guilty of traveling. I've made this very call several times.

How? He hasn't established position while in air and cannot until he is on the ground. You can't call a walk if this happens.

EDIT: to make sure we're all on the same page, I'm talking if the player comes directly on the butt, not touching his/her foot at all. It's a walk if he/she touches a foot first and then lands on the butt, but I thought if the player just falls to the floor without touching the foot it cannot be a walk until another part of the body touches the floor.