Double Foul

[smbbcoach99]

A little help if you would please.

Had a double foul last night. The official called both. Visitors had 7 team fouls as a result. Home had 6 team fouls as a result. We went to possession arrow. They said not to change the arrow upon inbounding the ball.

Was this correct? To me, it seems incorrect as it gives the same team possession twice in a row.

Thanks

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by smbbcoach99

A little help if you would please.

Had a double foul last night. The official called both. Visitors had 7 team fouls as a result. Home had 6 team fouls as a result. We went to possession arrow. They said not to change the arrow upon inbounding the ball.

Was this correct? To me, it seems incorrect as it gives the same team possession twice in a row.

Thanks

As described, not correct.

Should have gone to POI -- back to the team in control, or if no control to a throw-in or FT (if that was going on), or if neither of the above to the arrow (and it changes after the throw in is complete).

[Indianaref]

Rule 4-36 tells us what to do. Need more info on what was happening when the double foul occurred. It's possible that you go to the arrow if the DF happened during an unsuccessful try. Otherwise POI. As far as the arrow, the direction of the arrow is switch after the thow in ends.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Rule 4-36 tells us what to do. Need more info on what was happening when the double foul occurred. It's possible that you go to the arrow if the DF happened during an unsuccessful try. Otherwise POI. As far as the arrow, the direction of the arrow is switch after the thow in ends.

Double fouls are always POI. Sometimes, POI = AP, not usually.
It would also go to the arrow if the DF happened during rebounding action, or after a throwin ends but before team control is established.

[grunewar]

How many of you use the double foul call? I've only used it twice and it cleaned up the action inside.

Thoughts? Likes? Dislikes?

[chartrusepengui]

I've used it when necessary. I have two this year already. Usually occur in the paint. I usually try and do some preventive officiating telling them to play "straight up" or something. If one obviously initiates the contact I will call them for it - but sometimes, and for me it usually happens very early in the game or very late in the game - both competitors will start towards each other, or will touch and start leaning with an arm that goes to a full push like a couple of rhino's head to head. Then I'll hit them with the double.

And, like you, I have found this to be very effective in cleaning things up.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by grunewar

How many of you use the double foul call? I've only uesd it twice and it cleaned up the action inside.

Like it. Have used it only sparingly, perhaps once or twice a year, when the situation called for it.
There's something about a double foul which, though not the end of the world for the parties involved, impresses a sense of seriousness upon the psyche of the perpetrators.
Not something to just make up, of course, for the sake of calming things down. But a constructive tool in the game-management tool box, effective when it merits use.

[smbbcoach99]

It indeed happen in the paint as the home team had possession of the ball on the wing, below the FT line. I attempted to ask the official if the home team should still have the ball. He barked NO (as I questioned him I guess). Then he restated, possession arrow- and it does not change. I asked about it changing and was told once more- and your gone.

??????? WOW!

Thanks for all your assistance

[Adam]

Originally Posted by smbbcoach99

It indeed happen in the paint as the home team had possession of the ball on the wing, below the FT line. I attempted to ask the official if the home team should still have the ball. He barked NO (as I questioned him I guess). Then he restated, possession arrow- and it does not change. I asked about it changing and was told once more- and your gone.

??????? WOW!

Thanks for all your assistance

What level?

[smbbcoach99]

8th grade game. But the two officials do JV and Varsity games on a regular basis.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by smbbcoach99

8th grade game. But the two officials do JV and Varsity games on a regular basis.

Wow, to mess a rule up like that and to get snippy with a coach?

I'd love to read their side of the story, but we won't likely get that.

[tjones1]

The only way I can see they got this correct is if the double foul was called when there wasn't team control. Then they went to the AP. During the AP throw-in, there was a kicking violation or foul. Therefore, the arrow doesn't change.

However, given the information... I doubt this is what happened. Sounds like they might have got it wrong.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tjones1

The only way I can see they got this correct is if the double foul was called when there wasn't team control. Then they went to the AP. During the AP throw-in, there was a kicking violation or foul. Therefore, the arrow doesn't change.

However, given the information... I doubt this is what happened. Sounds like they might have got it wrong.

Or, there was TC and the arrow was in the direction of the team with TC. The OP thought that the throw-in was for the arrow (perhaps because someone may have mistakenly indicated to use the arrow). Then, when the OP asked about changing it, s/he was correctly told "no"

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I've used it when necessary. I have two this year already. Usually occur in the paint. I usually try and do some preventive officiating telling them to play "straight up" or something. If one obviously initiates the contact I will call them for it - but sometimes, and for me it usually happens very early in the game or very late in the game - both competitors will start towards each other, or will touch and start leaning with an arm that goes to a full push like a couple of rhino's head to head. Then I'll hit them with the double.

And, like you, I have found this to be very effective in cleaning things up.

And for the opposing viewpoint.

I don't remember ever calling one in 23 years. Maybe in my first few years I did, but I don't remember any.

Early on I'm talkative to the posts and defenses, but it's usually pretty clear who got who first or who gained the advantage. I try to get that person if the talking doesn't work.

If there was a situation where both were equally culpable at the same time, I'd use it and know how to administer it.

[chartrusepengui]

I have 2 this year already but I think that's a lot. One came about when I just know I missed the inital contact. I was distracted by a toddler who somehow got right up to endline and was about to teeter onto the court. I turned and moved a step towards the kid - saw dad swoop in, looked back and saw the rhino behavior occur. So, I called the double - it's what I saw even though I know something must have intstigated this.