Question about player and 4 quarters per night...

[offici88]

We've had some confusion this year since schools are allowed to experiment with halves. I haven't had to deal with the questions but did talk to an Assignor last night who gave a strong reminder that a half counts for 2 quarters.

More than 1 coach has been upset that he saved only 1 quarter for a JV player.

In this case, the assignor encouraged us to remind coaches that a half counts as 2 quarters.

[BayStateRef]

This is the Massachusetts rule:

66.7.2 No member of a high school basketball squad shall participate in
more than four quarters per day. (This does not include official
over-time periods.)

I had a varsity coach ask me this week if a player who fouled out in the JV game could play in the varsity game. I told her that as long as she had eligible quarters, she could play....and then I asked if she had "fouled out" for receiving two technical fouls (no...just five fouls.) I find it helps to know the state rules.

[representing]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

This is the Massachusetts rule:

66.7.2 No member of a high school basketball squad shall participate in
more than four quarters per day. (This does not include official
over-time periods.)

I had a varsity coach ask me this week if a player who fouled out in the JV game could play in the varsity game. I told her that as long as she had eligible quarters, she could play....and then I asked if she had "fouled out" for receiving two technical fouls (no...just five fouls.) I find it helps to know the state rules.

hm... I'm pretty sure PIAA doesn't have any provisions like that. I think the only ineligibility in these situations is that anyone who plays JV cannot START (i.e. be one of the 5 starters on either team) the Varsity game, but can certainly play at any point after the initial jump ball. Other than that, I'm pretty certain there are no quarters restrictions.

[JRutledge]

This is strictly a local issue. In my state for example I believe a player only has so many quarters they can play a season. As officials we having nothing to do with this or do not allow a player to play as a result. This is totally an administrative issue for the schools and they are to report on each other if this rule is violated. And that is why I have no idea how many quarters a player can play and if anyone has ever gotten in trouble for violating such rule.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by offici88

Just so we're clear, I'm talking about a JV player who played in the 4th quarter (which means he's a Varsity player too).

Just to be clear; if your association wants you to have an answer, fine. But to me, any answer that has to be prefaced with "I'm not exactly sure, but...." is best not given in this circumstance.

And telling the coach "I can't answer" isn't being a jerk, it's being honest. And, again just IMO, any assigner who asks you to have an answer is just asking for trouble down the road.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by offici88

It's not our responsibility to enforce the quarter rule, but we still must know about it enough to explain it.

I completely disagree with this statement. Not only do I have no knowledge of what the rule is or is not, we have never been asked to give such a ruling. As stated if your state wants you to be knowledgeable about this rule, it is their responsibility to give that information to you. Our only obligation otherwise is to know the rules of the game. This to me is the equivalent of knowing who has their grades in order. Do you answer questions about those situations too?

Peace

[j51969]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

This is the Massachusetts rule:

66.7.2 No member of a high school basketball squad shall participate in
more than four quarters per day. (This does not include official
over-time periods.)

I had a varsity coach ask me this week if a player who fouled out in the JV game could play in the varsity game. I told her that as long as she had eligible quarters, she could play....and then I asked if she had "fouled out" for receiving two technical fouls (no...just five fouls.) I find it helps to know the state rules.

What if you didn't work the JV game? Who is responsible to tracking an providing this information? This is what I call an official "Goat Rope" starting. I am not getting concerned with who, and how many quarters are being played by whom. If I was in a state that had this rule, they would have to provide someone to inform the coaches and teams to players eligibility. What a mess

[zm1283]

I'm pretty sure a player can play five quarters a day in Missouri. I have been asked about it a couple of times by coaches and I just tell them I'm not in charge of eligibility issues and that they'll have to handle it on their own.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I completely disagree with this statement. Not only do I have no knowledge of what the rule is or is not, we have never been asked to give such a ruling. As stated if your state wants you to be knowledgeable about this rule, it is their responsibility to give that information to you. Our only obligation otherwise is to know the rules of the game. This to me is the equivalent of knowing who has their grades in order. Do you answer questions about those situations too?

Peace

Bingo. Just to add, inserting yourself into this, even by giving a qualified answer, is opening yourself up to being asked to enforce it.

Again, if you Romans want it done differently, so be it.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by j51969

What if you didn't work the JV game? Who is responsible to tracking an providing this information? This is what I call an official "Goat Rope" starting. I am not getting concerned with who, and how many quarters are being played by whom. If I was in a state that had this rule, they would have to provide someone to inform the coaches and teams to players eligibility. What a mess

I have no trouble telling the coach the rule, but I certainly don't have any responsibility or interest in enforcing it. If I did not know the rule, I would say that. But this rule is simple, clear and concise. I have no problem sharing that knowledge with a coach.

[offici88]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just to be clear; if your association wants you to have an answer, fine. But to me, any answer that has to be prefaced with "I'm not exactly sure, but...." is best not given in this circumstance.

And telling the coach "I can't answer" isn't being a jerk, it's being honest. And, again just IMO, any assigner who asks you to have an answer is just asking for trouble down the road.

I see a big difference between "I'm not exactly sure, but..." and "It's not my jurisdiction, but my understanding is..."

I see a question about quarters on par with suspension for ejection.

For example, after a game in which I toss a player, a coach asks "Does he miss my game tomorrow?" I likely respond with the process "I submit a report. The State Association is in contact with your AD. It's not my ruling, but I understand that the player is suspended for a game. Contact your AD for the official ruling."

Now, that's my opinion and how I choose to handle it. I give no definitive interpretation. I merely try to point the coach in the right direction. I draw from common knowledge that ejection = suspension. I get asked because I'm an official but do not relay the official notification of suspension.

I don't think anyone else is a jerk if they reply "I can't answer" or anything like that. However, I've taken that route as well and felt like a jerk. That's what I speak to. I don't go out of my way to clarify with coaches, just like I don't seek their approval when I call a foul. I hear a question, I have some knowledge, I share what I know.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by offici88

I see a big difference between "I'm not exactly sure, but..." and "It's not my jurisdiction, but my understanding is..."

I see a question about quarters on par with suspension for ejection.

For example, after a game in which I toss a player, a coach asks "Does he miss my game tomorrow?" I likely respond with the process "I submit a report. The State Association is in contact with your AD. It's not my ruling, but I understand that the player is suspended for a game. Contact your AD for the official ruling."

Now, that's my opinion and how I choose to handle it. I give no definitive interpretation. I merely try to point the coach in the right direction. I draw from common knowledge that ejection = suspension. I get asked because I'm an official but do not relay the official notification of suspension.

I don't think anyone else is a jerk if they reply "I can't answer" or anything like that. However, I've taken that route as well and felt like a jerk. That's what I speak to. I don't go out of my way to clarify with coaches, just like I don't seek their approval when I call a foul. I hear a question, I have some knowledge, I share what I know.

The bottom line is you cannot answer to something you do not know. I will help someone get the information if needed, but I will never say what someone will do outside of my jurisdiction. And if you do not know, then you do not know. We are not experts on everything. There are just some things we will not have the answer to. And that sometimes includes rules and situations we have never experienced.

Peace

[just another ref]

Coach: Can this player play?

Me: If he's in the book and properly attired, Julius Erving can play and it's ok with me.

[26 Year Gap]

I know one poster who might say "Don't be a plumber." In this case, he would be right. Unless the state says enforcement is up to the game officials, it is not my problem.

[Ignats75]

Prior to the season, the OHSAA sends me (and every other licensed official in Ohio) a booklet that contains all the state regs. Included in there are the participation rules. We are expected to know what is in these booklets. Mostly its a listing of activity dates and a list of scheduled rules meetings. However, as I said, the participation rules are also in this book. Therefore, while we are not the enforcement arm on them, the state does expect us to know what they are.

In Ohio, where every school is allowed to play 20 games; each player is allowed 90 quarters per season and 5 quarters per day. OT is an extension of the 4th quarter. The Post season OHSAA tournament does not count towards that total. There are always different officials for the JV and Varsity game, so we aren't aware of any violations. However, in the off chance that we become aware of a violation, we are expected to send a report to the state so that they can investigate.