Question about player and 4 quarters per night...

[Pirate]

If the rule is a player may participate in four quarters total per night, regardless of level (varsity, jv, etc.), can he/she participate in an overtime should the game go into OT? I'm assuming that if the player had already burned their four quarters prior to the fourth quarter or OT of a varsity contest, this would not be allowed?! If however, the player was a participant in the fourth quarter, would you treat the OT's like an extension of the fourth quarter and would the player be allowed to participate? I know this is really not a decision that officials are responsible for making, but I was asked this question by one of our coaches at the high school I teach at, so I'm asking you guys, the experts. Thanks.

Pirate

[Nevadaref]

We have no idea about whatever regulations certain states or areas place upon their local players.
However, I would think that it would be downright silly to prevent anyone from participating in an extra period because of such a rule.

[offici88]

It's not our responsibility to enforce the quarter rule, but we still must know about it enough to explain it.

You're right that OT is an extension of the 4th quarter. For small schools, I often see the V coach keep a quarter for a JV player until the 4th quarter in case other players foul out or the game goes to OT.

Occasionally, I'll have an assistant coach ask prior to the start of OT if the JV player can play in OT. I better be able to give him the correct answer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by offici88

It's not our responsibility to enforce the quarter rule, but we still must know about it enough to explain it.

You're right that OT is an extension of the 4th quarter. For small schools, I often see the V coach keep a quarter for a JV player until the 4th quarter in case other players foul out or the game goes to OT.

Occasionally, I'll have an assistant coach ask prior to the start of OT if the JV player can play in OT. I better be able to give him the correct answer.

Really? I've never been asked this question, and if I was, I would defer. It is not our responsibility in any way. No way I'm going to tell a coach who can and can't play based on eligibility; if I give the wrong advice, I'll cost him a forfeit.

It is the coach's responsibility to know these rules inside out.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It is the coach's responsibility to know these rules inside out.

I agree. In my area conferences may have rules that are more strict than the State Association. These same conferences have different rules for JH and MS games. There is no way that I would even try to keep them all straight.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I agree. In my area conferences may have rules that are more strict than the State Association. These same conferences have different rules for JH and MS games. There is no way that I would even try to keep them all straight.

Amen to that. The first thing we ask when we get to a MS/JHS game is: "do you have any special rules we need to be aware of - or are we just doing NFHS with state adaptations?"

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It is the coach's responsibility to know these rules inside out.

There's knowing the rule. And there's probing the officials to see what you can get away with. Very different animals.

[offici88]

Originally Posted by offici88

Occasionally, I'll have an assistant coach ask prior to the start of OT if the JV player can play in OT. I better be able to give him the correct answer.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really? I've never been asked this question, and if I was, I would defer. It is not our responsibility in any way. No way I'm going to tell a coach who can and can't play based on eligibility; if I give the wrong advice, I'll cost him a forfeit.

It is the coach's responsibility to know these rules inside out.

Just so we're clear, I'm talking about a JV player who played in the 4th quarter (which means he's a Varsity player too).

[Back In The Saddle]

Can you imagine the chaos if the OT were counted as a separate quarter? Both teams may have to change their entire line up, putting in scrubs to finish the game because the starters have already played 4 quarters. The only answer that makes any sense (at least in my feeble mind) is that OT is an extension of the fourth quarter and the same "eligibility" that existed to start the fourth quarter still applies.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by offici88

Just so we're clear, I'm talking about a JV player who played in the 4th quarter (which means he's a Varsity player too).

Just to be clear; if your association wants you to have an answer, fine. But to me, any answer that has to be prefaced with "I'm not exactly sure, but...." is best not given in this circumstance.

And telling the coach "I can't answer" isn't being a jerk, it's being honest. And, again just IMO, any assigner who asks you to have an answer is just asking for trouble down the road.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by offici88

It's not our responsibility to enforce the quarter rule, but we still must know about it enough to explain it.

You're right that OT is an extension of the 4th quarter. For small schools, I often see the V coach keep a quarter for a JV player until the 4th quarter in case other players foul out or the game goes to OT.

Occasionally, I'll have an assistant coach ask prior to the start of OT if the JV player can play in OT. I better be able to give him the correct answer.

Is that your association's policy? Is it posted on the state website?

[offici88]

Originally Posted by offici88

Occasionally, I'll have an assistant coach ask prior to the start of OT if the JV player can play in OT. I better be able to give him the correct answer.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Is that your association's policy? Is it posted on the state website?

Official policy---no. But it's a credibility factor. My response may simply be "OT is an extension of the 4th quarter."

I'll always preface a question about quarters with "it's not my jurisdiction but my understanding is...."

I don't want to be the jerk who is unhelpful. Yes, coaches should know the rules, but they expect that I know the rules as well.

Same for players who have been tossed from a game. It's not my place to tell a coach a player can or cannot play the next game. (State Association requires 1 game suspension.) I'll state that I'm not in a position to make the determination for the coach, but the general principle is to sit a game. I encourage the coach to talk with his her AD and the state association to be sure.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by offici88

Official policy---no. But it's a credibility factor. My response may simply be "OT is an extension of the 4th quarter."

I'll always preface a question about quarters with "it's not my jurisdiction but my understanding is...."

I don't want to be the jerk who is unhelpful. Yes, coaches should know the rules, but they expect that I know the rules as well.

Same for players who have been tossed from a game. It's not my place to tell a coach a player can or cannot play the next game. (State Association requires 1 game suspension.) I'll state that I'm not in a position to make the determination for the coach, but the general principle is to sit a game. I encourage the coach to talk with his her AD and the state association to be sure.

In Kansas several years ago, we were instructed not to tell coaches the eligibility rules. We weren't expected to track eligibility, and a player who had used all available quarters of play could still play in the game - it just counted as an additional game played and would hinder his ability to play in another game that season.

As officials, having any sort of discussion - especially one where "well, I'm not sure but I think he's okay to play" is bad news. If we're wrong, then we've potentially contributed to costing a player a game of eligibility. The coach will certainly use the "but the official told me it was okay" excuse to his admin/the state. And then the official will be getting a call about "why did you do that?"

We were instructed to say, when asked, something like, "Coach, we aren't given instruction in the rules on eligibility, and we don't enforce those rules, either. You'll have to ask your AD. Sorry we can't help."

[phansen]

Had a similar situation several years ago. Upon asking the state clinician, he said that is out of the officials jurisdiction as we do not rule on eligibility issues. If the opposing coach wants to play a player the entire junior varsity and varsity, that is up to them. The official has no responsibility here. However it would be the opposing teams responsibility to report to the state and file a complaint.
Sorry I have no rulebook citation for this.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by offici88

It's not our responsibility to enforce the quarter rule, but we still must know about it enough to explain it.

I completely disagree with this statement. Not only do I have no knowledge of what the rule is or is not, we have never been asked to give such a ruling. As stated if your state wants you to be knowledgeable about this rule, it is their responsibility to give that information to you. Our only obligation otherwise is to know the rules of the game. This to me is the equivalent of knowing who has their grades in order. Do you answer questions about those situations too?

Peace