Question about player and 4 quarters per night...

[offici88]

It's not our responsibility to enforce the quarter rule, but we still must know about it enough to explain it.

You're right that OT is an extension of the 4th quarter. For small schools, I often see the V coach keep a quarter for a JV player until the 4th quarter in case other players foul out or the game goes to OT.

Occasionally, I'll have an assistant coach ask prior to the start of OT if the JV player can play in OT. I better be able to give him the correct answer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by offici88

It's not our responsibility to enforce the quarter rule, but we still must know about it enough to explain it.

You're right that OT is an extension of the 4th quarter. For small schools, I often see the V coach keep a quarter for a JV player until the 4th quarter in case other players foul out or the game goes to OT.

Occasionally, I'll have an assistant coach ask prior to the start of OT if the JV player can play in OT. I better be able to give him the correct answer.

Really? I've never been asked this question, and if I was, I would defer. It is not our responsibility in any way. No way I'm going to tell a coach who can and can't play based on eligibility; if I give the wrong advice, I'll cost him a forfeit.

It is the coach's responsibility to know these rules inside out.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It is the coach's responsibility to know these rules inside out.

I agree. In my area conferences may have rules that are more strict than the State Association. These same conferences have different rules for JH and MS games. There is no way that I would even try to keep them all straight.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I agree. In my area conferences may have rules that are more strict than the State Association. These same conferences have different rules for JH and MS games. There is no way that I would even try to keep them all straight.

Amen to that. The first thing we ask when we get to a MS/JHS game is: "do you have any special rules we need to be aware of - or are we just doing NFHS with state adaptations?"

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It is the coach's responsibility to know these rules inside out.

There's knowing the rule. And there's probing the officials to see what you can get away with. Very different animals.

[offici88]

Originally Posted by offici88

Occasionally, I'll have an assistant coach ask prior to the start of OT if the JV player can play in OT. I better be able to give him the correct answer.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really? I've never been asked this question, and if I was, I would defer. It is not our responsibility in any way. No way I'm going to tell a coach who can and can't play based on eligibility; if I give the wrong advice, I'll cost him a forfeit.

It is the coach's responsibility to know these rules inside out.

Just so we're clear, I'm talking about a JV player who played in the 4th quarter (which means he's a Varsity player too).

[Back In The Saddle]

Can you imagine the chaos if the OT were counted as a separate quarter? Both teams may have to change their entire line up, putting in scrubs to finish the game because the starters have already played 4 quarters. The only answer that makes any sense (at least in my feeble mind) is that OT is an extension of the fourth quarter and the same "eligibility" that existed to start the fourth quarter still applies.

[offici88]

We've had some confusion this year since schools are allowed to experiment with halves. I haven't had to deal with the questions but did talk to an Assignor last night who gave a strong reminder that a half counts for 2 quarters.

More than 1 coach has been upset that he saved only 1 quarter for a JV player.

In this case, the assignor encouraged us to remind coaches that a half counts as 2 quarters.

[BayStateRef]

This is the Massachusetts rule:

66.7.2 No member of a high school basketball squad shall participate in
more than four quarters per day. (This does not include official
over-time periods.)

I had a varsity coach ask me this week if a player who fouled out in the JV game could play in the varsity game. I told her that as long as she had eligible quarters, she could play....and then I asked if she had "fouled out" for receiving two technical fouls (no...just five fouls.) I find it helps to know the state rules.

[representing]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

This is the Massachusetts rule:

66.7.2 No member of a high school basketball squad shall participate in
more than four quarters per day. (This does not include official
over-time periods.)

I had a varsity coach ask me this week if a player who fouled out in the JV game could play in the varsity game. I told her that as long as she had eligible quarters, she could play....and then I asked if she had "fouled out" for receiving two technical fouls (no...just five fouls.) I find it helps to know the state rules.

hm... I'm pretty sure PIAA doesn't have any provisions like that. I think the only ineligibility in these situations is that anyone who plays JV cannot START (i.e. be one of the 5 starters on either team) the Varsity game, but can certainly play at any point after the initial jump ball. Other than that, I'm pretty certain there are no quarters restrictions.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

This is the Massachusetts rule:

66.7.2 No member of a high school basketball squad shall participate in
more than four quarters per day. (This does not include official
over-time periods.)

I had a varsity coach ask me this week if a player who fouled out in the JV game could play in the varsity game. I told her that as long as she had eligible quarters, she could play....and then I asked if she had "fouled out" for receiving two technical fouls (no...just five fouls.) I find it helps to know the state rules.

What if you didn't work the JV game? Who is responsible to tracking an providing this information? This is what I call an official "Goat Rope" starting. I am not getting concerned with who, and how many quarters are being played by whom. If I was in a state that had this rule, they would have to provide someone to inform the coaches and teams to players eligibility. What a mess

[JRutledge]

This is strictly a local issue. In my state for example I believe a player only has so many quarters they can play a season. As officials we having nothing to do with this or do not allow a player to play as a result. This is totally an administrative issue for the schools and they are to report on each other if this rule is violated. And that is why I have no idea how many quarters a player can play and if anyone has ever gotten in trouble for violating such rule.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by offici88

Just so we're clear, I'm talking about a JV player who played in the 4th quarter (which means he's a Varsity player too).

Just to be clear; if your association wants you to have an answer, fine. But to me, any answer that has to be prefaced with "I'm not exactly sure, but...." is best not given in this circumstance.

And telling the coach "I can't answer" isn't being a jerk, it's being honest. And, again just IMO, any assigner who asks you to have an answer is just asking for trouble down the road.

[offici88]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just to be clear; if your association wants you to have an answer, fine. But to me, any answer that has to be prefaced with "I'm not exactly sure, but...." is best not given in this circumstance.

And telling the coach "I can't answer" isn't being a jerk, it's being honest. And, again just IMO, any assigner who asks you to have an answer is just asking for trouble down the road.

I see a big difference between "I'm not exactly sure, but..." and "It's not my jurisdiction, but my understanding is..."

I see a question about quarters on par with suspension for ejection.

For example, after a game in which I toss a player, a coach asks "Does he miss my game tomorrow?" I likely respond with the process "I submit a report. The State Association is in contact with your AD. It's not my ruling, but I understand that the player is suspended for a game. Contact your AD for the official ruling."

Now, that's my opinion and how I choose to handle it. I give no definitive interpretation. I merely try to point the coach in the right direction. I draw from common knowledge that ejection = suspension. I get asked because I'm an official but do not relay the official notification of suspension.

I don't think anyone else is a jerk if they reply "I can't answer" or anything like that. However, I've taken that route as well and felt like a jerk. That's what I speak to. I don't go out of my way to clarify with coaches, just like I don't seek their approval when I call a foul. I hear a question, I have some knowledge, I share what I know.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by offici88

I see a big difference between "I'm not exactly sure, but..." and "It's not my jurisdiction, but my understanding is..."

I see a question about quarters on par with suspension for ejection.

For example, after a game in which I toss a player, a coach asks "Does he miss my game tomorrow?" I likely respond with the process "I submit a report. The State Association is in contact with your AD. It's not my ruling, but I understand that the player is suspended for a game. Contact your AD for the official ruling."

Now, that's my opinion and how I choose to handle it. I give no definitive interpretation. I merely try to point the coach in the right direction. I draw from common knowledge that ejection = suspension. I get asked because I'm an official but do not relay the official notification of suspension.

I don't think anyone else is a jerk if they reply "I can't answer" or anything like that. However, I've taken that route as well and felt like a jerk. That's what I speak to. I don't go out of my way to clarify with coaches, just like I don't seek their approval when I call a foul. I hear a question, I have some knowledge, I share what I know.

The bottom line is you cannot answer to something you do not know. I will help someone get the information if needed, but I will never say what someone will do outside of my jurisdiction. And if you do not know, then you do not know. We are not experts on everything. There are just some things we will not have the answer to. And that sometimes includes rules and situations we have never experienced.

Peace