Rule Clarification to a play we discussed

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Self

Tell your partner to learn the rules...... [/B]

Well, I'm really more concerned with the coach, who's
gonna start yelling "That's a violation! That's a
violation!" And, since there is some level of judgement
involved with a drastic difference in outcome (ignore it or
give the ball to the other team) the fed has turned a once-in-a-lifetime experience into potentially a once-a-game headache.

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[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

... And, since there is some level of judgement
involved with a drastic difference in outcome (ignore it or
give the ball to the other team) the fed has turned a once-in-a-lifetime experience into potentially a once-a-game headache.

I agree, Dan,
If we can judge a shot, and if we can judge a pass, we can certainly judge a throw-in.
And, like you said, mileage may vary.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick

I agree, Dan,
If we can judge a shot, and if we can judge a pass, we can certainly judge a throw-in.
And, like you said, mileage may vary.
mick

Kind of reminds you of slapping a T on someone who throws an elbow without hitting someone,doesn't it?Makes ya wonder how many refs are gonna call this one by the book!

[Self]

I had this exact play in a game. A1 grabbed the ball from teh net and threw to a streaking A2. The intent was to gain an advantage and avoid any delay, that being taking the ball out of bounds properly.. I had no problem calling a violation for an illegal throw in. Coach jumped up and wanted to know what his player did, and I told him. Simple as that.. All in how you handle it as far as the coaches go. I do not understand why anyone would have a problem calling this a violation.

Most refs have no problem calling a T with six men on the court when ussually this is due to our mistake, this could just be an innocent mistake, why pennalize it.... Yet they don't want to call this play when a team is obviously trying to gain an illegal advantage.

I guess I just don't understand.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Self
I had this exact play in a game. A1 grabbed the ball from teh net and threw to a streaking A2. The intent was to gain an advantage and avoid any delay, that being taking the ball out of bounds properly.. I had no problem calling a violation for an illegal throw in. Coach jumped up and wanted to know what his player did, and I told him. Simple as that.. All in how you handle it as far as the coaches go. I do not understand why anyone would have a problem calling this a violation.

Most refs have no problem calling a T with six men on the court when ussually this is due to our mistake, this could just be an innocent mistake, why pennalize it.... Yet they don't want to call this play when a team is obviously trying to gain an illegal advantage.

I guess I just don't understand.

Self,I think you misunderstood what Dan and Mick were telling you.There's no problem calling a violation when a team is trying to take an illegal advantage.The problem does arise when a team does something like this to absolutely NO advantage.It's kinda similar to stepping over the end line on a throw-in when there's no pressure,a foul shooter putting their big toe on the FT line before the ball hits the rim,an offensive player with a foot in the lane when the ball is nowhere near him,etc.-i.e. no advantage/no whistle.

[Self]

Thought he was referring to my situation. My partner told me he would have just had them reset and do over. I asked why, he responded, "it just didn't hurt anything". I said really, what if they did it again. He said, " it just wouldn't happen", I said what if it did. He said, "i would just reset it again... I just laughed and realized who I was working with...

Thanks for you explanation...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Self
Thought he was referring to my situation. My partner told me he would have just had them reset and do over. I asked why, he responded, "it just didn't hurt anything". I said really, what if they did it again. He said, " it just wouldn't happen", I said what if it did. He said, "i would just reset it again... I just laughed and realized who I was working with...

Thanks for you explanation...

Well let's see now, team A throws the ball downcourt without
taking it OOB on the throwin after the basket. Your partner
blows the whistle & tells them to do it right. Team A has
lost their advantage, haven't they? If they do it twice
it's a case of poor coaching. Let's try it this way,
the reason why this is a bad interpretation is because it
leaves open the question of when to decide the non-throwin
is actually a throw in. Every coach worth his salt will
be screaming for a throwin violation this December even if
a team merely hesitates after the made basket.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

Every coach worth his salt will
be screaming for a throwin violation this December even if
a team merely hesitates after the made basket. [/B][/QUOTE]And every referee worth his salt will be screaming back at the coach to STFU.Fair's fair!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

And every referee worth his salt will be screaming back at the coach to STFU.Fair's fair!

Yeah, sure, but that's the same as it's always been!

[Self]

by the way DanRef thanks for the info on the smiles...

Now back to the discussion. I just don't believe it will be a problem. I have a very good repor with the coaches in the Regions I ref, and the ones I don't know I feel confident in my abilities to explain this call, just like calling a foul or a travel.

As far as when to decide to call it. Just like a foul or a travel, it will be my judgement and understanding of the rules. In the situation a described and easy one to call and defend. In others like it I do not believe I will have trouble telling the diffence between clear advantage and a toss to a teammate to throw in....

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Self
by the way DanRef thanks for the info on the smiles...

Now back to the discussion. I just don't believe it will be a problem. I have a very good repor with the coaches in the Regions I ref, and the ones I don't know I feel confident in my abilities to explain this call, just like calling a foul or a travel.

As far as when to decide to call it. Just like a foul or a travel, it will be my judgement and understanding of the rules. In the situation a described and easy one to call and defend. In others like it I do not believe I will have trouble telling the diffence between clear advantage and a toss to a teammate to throw in....

As I already said they've turned a once in a lifetime thing
into a once a game annoyance. They attempted to cover a
minute hole in the existing rule and made a mess of it.
IMO. But how about this: this interpretaion is not
consistent with the existing rules, unless they made
"editorial changes" to the rules which provide for 5
seconds to complete a legal throw-in. A delay warning works
because it negates any advantage and it warns a team that
has delayed the game using this tactic either on purpose or
by mistake. Giving the ball to the other team is entirely
too harsh.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Self
As far as when to decide to call it. Just like a foul or a travel, it will be my judgement and understanding of the rules. In the situation a described and easy one to call and defend. In others like it I do not believe I will have trouble telling the diffence between clear advantage and a toss to a teammate to throw in....

Self,I don't think any of us are worrying that you can't tell the difference.You obviously can.I think a whole bunch of us are worrying about the coaches who can't tell the difference in this situation.

[ChuckElias]

I don't do this very often, but. . . I told you so!!!

You make a throw-in and you're not OOB, it's a violation. This has always seemed like a no-brainer to me. All you folks worried about some coach saying this or wanting that. . . why are you worried? Why is this any different from a coach who doesn't understand the 3-second rule?

Chuck

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I don't do this very often, but. . . I told you so!!!

You make a throw-in and you're not OOB, it's a violation. ... Why is this any different from a coach who doesn't understand the 3-second rule?

Chuck

Because by definition a "throw-in" when you are not OOB is
not a throw-in. You have 5 seconds to do it properly. By
decree the fed has allowed us to declare a non-throw-in to
be a throw in. You're right, it is a no brainer.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
You make a throw-in and you're not OOB, it's a violation.

If you're not OOB, it's not a throw-in.