Delayed call on slam

officialtony · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 14, 2005, 04:11pm

Well, I think I missed this one and don't know if I should have changed my mind officially or not. I put it to the forum.
An Open tournament.
Two 17 year olds who start the match and wrestle the first 3 minutes banging each other pretty hard. Both are dishing it out and taking it. Hard cross faces, tight waist rides, tough Gables, Etc.
Naturally it finally happens. " A " stands up and " B " locks him tight around the waist and drops him like a bad habit - hard. Neither arm is trapped to the body so " A " could try to brace himself. " A " screams and lets out a big puff of air when he hits the mat. He looks rough around the edges so I stop the match. After I replayed it in my mind three times, I am thinking slam. However, three - maybe four - seconds have passed and the coach from " A " is screaming slam. Here is my question.
Is it too late to call the slam - which at this point I think I have?

I did not call it anyway, but wonder if it would have been appropriate since, in reality, I am sure now it was.

I am looking at this for future situations.

In my mind, this is the toughest call I ever have to make - trying to distinguish slam versus aggressive style of wrestling.

woolnojg · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 15, 2005, 02:14pm

HTBT for this one.
However, taking a few moments to reflect on what you saw is acceptable. As long as you have not made a call, holding your call does not hurt. It is the lifting wrestler's obligation to return his opponent to the mat safely. Various interpretations of ecxactly what this means but, I train new people to look at elevate and/or accelerate. Was the wrestler who landed hard elevated off the mat and/or acceleratd to the mat? Gravity is a natural force and acceleration would be something faster than gravity would account for. Elevation would be somewhere around waist high. Falls from that height are usually harmless unless there is something else added to the fall; arms trapped, other wrestler on top, etc...
Slams seem to be like stalling for coaches, if the other kid did it then it must have been ...
Since you stopped the match so quickly then you were thinking there was a problem, either slam or injury. In that case your mental review would be to see if it was not a slam rather than if it were. Unless you stopped it for the potential injury.
Whenever I have a match that is starting to get very physical. I stop the match, take them both back to center and remind them that this is wrestling not MMA. This gives them a chance to recover their composure and tempers. The match usually goes along better after that. If it doesn't then the wrestlers and their coaches have a warning that penalties will be coming and they don't get to cry about it.

jreg · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 21, 2005, 03:07pm

Had a similar situation in a college match where the offensive wrestler picked up the defensive wrestler....as he walked near the edge of the mat, the whistle blew and he dropped his opponent. It was nothing malicious or intentional, but when he dropped his opponent, near the edge of the mat, his cheek and temple his the hard surface of the floor....guess what....he's woozy and eventually out cold. First reaction,bring his coach out....second reaction was responding to the coach's comment: "I'm really going to be interested in what you call here!" third reaction....talk to the offensive wrestler's coach...advised....I am calling a slam because your kid has the obligation to return his opponent to the mat safely.....he responded, if the "drop" had occurred in the middle of the mat would it still be slam....response...yes, if the kid went unconcious...the moral of the story is this....taking your time to get it right is not a problem.

officialtony · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 23, 2005, 01:25pm

jreg,
Great input. Thanks. My concern was making that call after I blew the whistle and realized the wrestler could be and probably was hurt. I am sure if I called the slam, I could have explained my delay as being more concerned for the well-being of the wrestler than I was about making the slam call immediately. I appreciate the feedback. It helps me to make good judgements in future situations like this.

woolnojg · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 24, 2005, 09:09am

The slam call is NOT dependant on whether an injury occurs or not. Regardless of where they are on the mat, it is a slam or it is not. Regardless of injury, it is a slam or it is not.

POE of the question is taking time to make the call. Taking time to make a correct call is not a problem.
In your situation jreg, what kind of timeout did you start to allow the coach onto the mat? Officials, injury, or recovery ? Two of the three are incorrect, depends on what your call was to start the correct time running.

jreg · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 24, 2005, 09:28am

You are correct that the type of timeout may be a critical factor, however in this case, the incident was in front of the injured wrestler's bench, and the nature of the contact, temple and shoulder, that it was immediate this wrestler was injured. In a flash, I motioned for the coach to come forward, he already was in the process, and we sorted through the issue. Wrestling rules, high school and college, require that a wrestler return an elevated wrestler to the mat safely. If in that return he is injured, whether the driving force was aggressive or not, a slam must be called. If the injury is feined, hence a good reason for a slow whistle, then there is no penalty.

jreg · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 24, 2005, 09:30am

By the way, I had an officials timeout to assess the situation, followed by recovery time. I disagree with you that two out of three are incorrect. An officials timeout is always acceptable to assess a situation, provided when the situation is assessed, the correct procedure is followed.

woolnojg · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 24, 2005, 05:59pm

So we're pretty much on the same page.
Take the time to make the right call.

officialtony · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 24, 2005, 08:54pm

I would agree with your assessment that it does not have to result in an injury to be a slam. I questioned myself because I felt I should have made the call right away and didn't. And then, not making it right away, I felt that it was too late to make the slam call after we stopped to determine if there was an injury and the wrestlers caoch was screaming at me that it was a slam. Thus, my post. I admit I was just too wishy washy and should have just made the call after I had replayed it in mind that it was, in fact, a slam.
Side note - I also think two of the three timeouts are correct. Officials timeout to assess and then recovery timeout if it is due to the slam.

Thanks for the input folks.

AlabamaBlue · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 11, 2005, 08:05am

Quote:

If in that return he is injured, whether the driving force was aggressive or not, a slam must be called.

I'm not sure I agree with this. In the course of even the most routine and non-aggressive return-to-the-mat, the defensive wrestler could break a finger, wrist, arm, etc, and it wouldn't neccessarily be a slam.