How do you know?

Back In The Saddle · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 09, 2009, 03:31pm

Had a game with a fairly new partner last night. Everything seemed to go pretty well, except the V HC started complaining early in the second half that "my girls always get called for fouls, and theirs never do."

I chalked it up to paranoid/partisan whining at first. The foul count was 4-2, not a big deal. I hadn't changed I was calling the game, and she wasn't complaining about it in the first half. But during the fourth quarter, I happened to be looking at a foul my partner called on one of her girls on a shot. From my angle I had nothing.

That got me thinking maybe we just weren't on the same page. The crew that followed us confirmed that. As one of them said, rather diplomatically, "You were each very consistent on each end."

So here's my question. I've asked it before, though maybe not here, and have yet to find any good answers.

In a two-person officiated game, where each of you are watching your own area, looking off ball when you should, etc., how can you know when your are calling the game inconsistently as a crew? What clues or signs should I look for?

Some thoughts that come to mind are:
* If there are differences in where the partners are calling fouls (e.g., I'm not calling anything on the perimeter, but he is; I have a few off ball calls, and he has none)
* The coach complaining about lack of consistency
* Asking my partner at breaks, "What did you have on that last foul?"
* Maybe consciously peeking into my partner's area at times

The first one seems legit, others not so much so.

How do you know whether you are on the same page as your partner?

grunewar · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 09, 2009, 03:54pm

How about a large disparity in number of whistles - whether it be foul or violation, i.e., you keep blowing yours and your partner doesn't feel the need. Sometimes this is a sign you have a new, timid partner or you may not be on the same sheet of music.

Of course, it can also mean you've got all the action!

stripes · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 09, 2009, 06:08pm

Ray--I reffed a game with my brother last night and this subject came up in the pre-game. He said that if his partner has had a few calls of one sort (i.e. traveling) and he has had none, he will ask what the partner is seeing that he is missing. This all presupposes that the partners are working in their own areas and are not looking into their partner's area.

Similar plays being called similar is the key I look for, but honestly, I don't know much about what my partner has called without video review/outside observation.

fiasco · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 09, 2009, 06:30pm

I know it's a prescribed mechanic, but I almost never stand where they tell you to stand during timeouts and between quarters.

I use those times as opportunities to talk to my partner. It's not like we're goofing off and looking bad, we're communicating.

The most frequent question I ask my partner is "What are you seeing out there."

Then, you talk about what each other is seeing.

"I'm seeing a lot of handchecking on the perimeter by white."

"Blue is really pushing in the back on rebounds."

"Red is not setting good screens."

Then we come to a decision about what we're going to do about it.

"Let's start tightening up our handchecking calls on white."

"Let's watch for excessive contact on rebounds. If you're Trail, feel free to look in the lane on rebounds to find something I can't see if I'm blocked out."

"Let's pay special attention to screens by Red and make sure they're setting them legally."

We come out of timeouts and quarters on the same page about the things that coaches have brought up and that we're seeing.

If I have a partner who won't communicate with me, then it's GIGDGO.

stripes · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 09, 2009, 06:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

If you're Trail, feel free to look in the lane on rebounds to find something I can't see if I'm blocked out."

Isn't this supposed to happen all the time? IMO, most of the rebound foul calls will come from C and T, not L.

Mark Padgett · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 09, 2009, 07:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

What clues or signs should I look for?

* The coach complaining about lack of consistency

Not this one.

Nevadaref · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 09, 2009, 08:38pm

This is exactly why it is important to switch on all fouls in the 2-man system.

If the crew doesn't, then we end up with one official being primarily on one end of the court judging the defense by one of the teams and the partner doing the same at the other end.

Cobra · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 10, 2009, 12:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Some thoughts that come to mind are:
* If there are differences in where the partners are calling fouls (e.g., I'm not calling anything on the perimeter, but he is; I have a few off ball calls, and he has none)
* The coach complaining about lack of consistency
* Asking my partner at breaks, "What did you have on that last foul?"
* Maybe consciously peeking into my partner's area at times

The first one seems legit, others not so much so.

How do you know whether you are on the same page as your partner?

None of that stuff matters. You switch all the time. He calls a foul on one team as the trail then you switch and he gets to call it on the other team.

muxbule · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 10, 2009, 01:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is exactly why it is important to switch on all fouls in the 2-man system.

If the crew doesn't, then we end up with one official being primarily on one end of the court judging the defense by one of the teams and the partner doing the same at the other end.

This was my immediate thought when I read the OP. I would only add that when you feel like there has not been a switch in some time it is good to force one so you aren't caught seeing the game as Nevadaref states.

Back In The Saddle · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 10, 2009, 02:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Not this one.

While I would tend to agree, we cannot simply dismiss everything every coach complains about. There are certain coaches who just coach, and if they have something to say to the officials they would be well-advised to lend an ear. There are times when even the most aggravating coach presents a clearly defined and independently verifiable complaint, and we ought to at least have a look to see if the complaint is valid.

mbyron · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 10, 2009, 07:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

None of that stuff matters. You switch all the time. He calls a non-shooting foul on one team as the trail then you switch and he gets to call it on the other team.

Fixed it for ya. With the new 2-person mechanic, when trail calls a shooting foul there's no switch.

Back In The Saddle · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 10, 2009, 10:50am

Having a few "real" games experience with the new mechanic, it does sometimes seem to keep the same official at the same end more. That can be because one team is fouling the shooter more often, it could also be because one partner is calling more shooting fouls. Time will tell whether the new mechanic leads to less evenly called games.

Back In The Saddle · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 10, 2009, 10:53am

I appreciate the point of view of those who have weighed in about how switching evens out the differences between how partners each call the game. I do not disagree.

However, what I really want to discuss is crew consistency. Even if switching evens out the effect of two partners who are not on the same page, not being on the same page still causes problems for the crew. So, I humbly reiterate my question...

How do you know you are, or are not calling the game the same way as your partner?

constable · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 10, 2009, 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Having a few "real" games experience with the new mechanic, it does sometimes seem to keep the same official at the same end more. That can be because one team is fouling the shooter more often, it could also be because one partner is calling more shooting fouls. Time will tell whether the new mechanic leads to less evenly called games.

I think this is part of IAABO's ( and a number of other states and one province's ) rationale behind not adopting the new mechanic.

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 10, 2009, 12:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

How do you know you are, or are not calling the game the same way as your partner?

Experience.

Even if you're looking in your area, you still know where the ball is. You still know (or should know) what type of foul your partner called.

So, if your partner is calling lots of fouls on the player defending the dribbler, then you should call more "handchecks" or "holds". If your partner is calling lots of fouls on players driving for lay-ups, then you should call more "shooting fouls." etc.

(And, the other option is for your patner to call fewer, etc.)