Foul out of bounds

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by refnuts

Slight bump causes player to go out of bounds with 2 seconds left. Official calls foul. Team ties game.

Where is line drawn on the effect of individual or team foul count, score of game, and time left have influence on officials play calls?

Obvious things have to be called. Put how about the not so obvious?

Personally I think we have enough to focus on rather than worrying about all of the peripheral stuff. There needs to be an awareness of game situation to help you to direct your focus, but not to influence whether or not to make a specific call IMO. If you can process all of that information and use it to decide whether or not your fist goes up in that half second-second then more power to you, but I would rather take that stuff out of the equation and use my focus to decide whether or not a foul occurred.

[Rufus]

In this case, regardless of other circumstances, you need to call the foul. A2 may or may not of fumbled the ball out of bounds but we'll never know since B1 bumped them. I would have a hard time penalizing A for "causing" the OOB in this case since B actually caused it. YMM.

As Snaq indicated, if B1 had that many fouls early in the second half then it's not on us to keep them in the game. They're supposed to do that by playing defense and not fouling. We've all seen great players on sub-par teams collect not only their share of the points but also of the fouls (since usually no one else on the team can play offense or defense). The NBA takes pains not to foul out the "stars" and than goodness none of us call for the NBA so we don't need to worry about that.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Personally I think we have enough to focus on rather than worrying about all of the peripheral stuff. There needs to be an awareness of game situation to help you to direct your focus, but not to influence whether or not to make a specific call IMO. If you can process all of that information and use it to decide whether or not your fist goes up in that half second-second then more power to you, but I would rather take that stuff out of the equation and use my focus to decide whether or not a foul occurred.

That "peripheral stuff" is what separates a good referee from a great referee. If team A is getting hammered by 30 with 2 min left in the 4th and and team B is on offense and is driving to the hoop and A1 has his arms barely non vertical and it causes the player to miss the shot, are you gonna call a foul??? I would hope not, granted it is technically a foul you are just now shoving this already embarassing loss right up team A's butt and making it worse.

I think the play in the OP is a foul, but by taking into account time and score I would be ok with passing on a slight bump that caused the player to lose control of the ball as long as it is late in the 4th and there is no possible chance of the team coming back from 30 down. That is just good game management. I personally wouldn't factor the type of player that committed the act into THIS play in particular bc it is so late in the game just the time and score. I think the no call is a win-win. The coach who is up, more than likely won't say anything bc it is a blowout and the other coach gets the ball down 30!

I also believe if there is more than a slight bump and the player gets knocked down then you should probably take a foul. jmo

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

That "peripheral stuff" is what separates a good referee from a great referee. If team A is getting hammered by 30 with 2 min left in the 4th and and team B is on offense and is driving to the hoop and A1 has his arms barely non vertical and it causes the player to miss the shot, are you gonna call a foul??? I would hope not, granted it is technically a foul you are just now shoving this already embarassing loss right up team A's butt and making it worse.

I think the play in the OP is a foul, but by taking into account time and score I would be ok with passing on a slight bump that caused the player to lose control of the ball as long as it is late in the 4th and there is no possible chance of the team coming back from 30 down. That is just good game management. I personally wouldn't factor the type of player that committed the act into THIS play in particular bc it is so late in the game just the time and score. I think the no call is a win-win. The coach who is up, more than likely won't say anything bc it is a blowout and the other coach gets the ball down 30!

I also believe if there is more than a slight bump and the player gets knocked down then you should probably take a foul. jmo

You realize that your post is totally contradictory to what you say in your signature. If a player fouls another player, you call it. Please show me in the rules where it says you don't.

[zebraman]

Wouldn't it be nice to live in a perfect basketball world where a foul is always a foul? At the lower levels, it just might be so.

The reality of officiating at higher levels is that we are taught that there are plays which are 50/50's. In other words, marginal contact that may or may not be a foul depending on the game situation.

You don't have to like it, but that is how it is. Those who don't understand that don't generally last real long.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

You realize that your post is totally contradictory to what you say in your signature. If a player fouls another player, you call it. Please show me in the rules where it says you don't.

I don't believe it does. The OP says "slight bump" and that slight bump becomes a hard judgement call. It could be up for total debate whether it was a foul or not. I'm not missing anything that is a no brainer foul