Incidental contact ?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

There's a difference between being tripped, and tripping. (foul, no foul)

An obvious difference is that "being tripped" happens to the "trippee," and "tripping" is generally called on the "tripper." But that's not what BillyMac means.

The point is that players can trip over their own feet, which is obviously not a foul. They can also trip over defenders who have not moved or are otherwise not responsible for the contact, and that tripping is also not a foul.

Only when a player is responsible for the contact in such a way that the result is another player tripping do we have a foul (and possibly not even then).

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Only when a player is responsible for the contact in such a way that the result is another player tripping do we have a foul (and possibly not even then).

So in the OP, would you have called the foul in that sitch? A1 was dribbling downcourt and B1 comes up from behind (obviously not a legal guarding position) and "accidentally", not intentionally, trips (steps on the foot of A1) causing A1 to lose possession. I personally have a foul there, but I'm just wondering what other officials are thinking there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pirate

B1 comes up from behind and accidentally, not intentionally, steps on the foot of A1 causing A1 to lose possession.

That's exactly what I meant by, "Accidental isn't always incidental".

[Kelvin green]

how many players really fall down by themselves?

If the player fell down by the actions of another player, I look at a foul.

If the player truly fell doen by themselves then no foul...i

ncidental contact...

Similarly, contact which does not hinder the opponent from
participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered
incidental.

Sounds like the play described the player was hindered in normal offensive movements... Foul!

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

how many players really fall down by themselves?

All the spot-on discussion above aside, KG, I just have this to say:
You haven't officiated much young kid games lately, have you?

[budjones05]

NCAA 4-40-3 Contact that does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements shall be considered incidental


B1 cause A1 to lose the ball. A foul must be called

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Pirate

So in the OP, would you have called the foul in that sitch? A1 was dribbling downcourt and B1 comes up from behind (obviously not a legal guarding position) and "accidentally", not intentionally, trips (steps on the foot of A1) causing A1 to lose possession. I personally have a foul there, but I'm just wondering what other officials are thinking there.

Yes, foul every time from the way you describe it. If A1 doesn't lose possession I have nothing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

Yes, foul every time from the way you describe it. If A1 doesn't lose possession I have nothing.

If A1 falls, it doesn't matter if he loses possession.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The point is that players can trip over their own feet, which is obviously not a foul. They can also trip over defenders who have not moved or are otherwise not responsible for the contact, and that tripping is also not a foul. Only when a player is responsible for the contact in such a way that the result is another player tripping do we have a foul (and possibly not even then).

I could not have said it better myself. Seriously. I couldn't. Well done.