How would you handle this situation.

[PAULK1]

If you look at my first post in this thread you will find I agreed with the way it was suggested to be handled.

Bktballref: The way your situation was handled was great
I would have handled it the same way.

My problem was with the C who sees it but will not come over
and help(even if it is not asked for). This just doesn't seem to be good teamwork on the crews part. In this particular case and on this paticular play if the C sees it,
but does nothing then why have him out there at all.

I have no problem the the areas of coverage they are great
for getting maximum coverage. I do have a problem with officals, who if you make a call in any portion of their primary they act as if you ran over their first born in the
parking lot. This is what causes the if I ain't asked I'm not doing anything or if its not in my primary it didn't happen.

I didn't say the C should change the call, but to give the T
information(what he saw). It would still be up to the T to make the call. If the T changed his call fine, If he didn't just as fine, but atleast we came together and communicated like a team.

[crew]

Originally posted by JRutledge
3 Person game.

Trail is table side. Center is opposite table side.

Team A has the ball in their frontcourt. Team A mishandles the ball and a scramble for the ball has players flying all over the place like it is a fumble in football. Well the T calls an over and back after the scramble on A. The T thought he saw B1 gain possession on the court in the backcourt, scooting the ball to B2 that was in the frontcourt, then B2 steps back on the division line, which would have made this an over and back. But looking at tape, we realized that the T was kind of screened to the play, and the C had a better look. The T came in a sold the call very well, but the C had a better look at the play. The C thought that the call was wrong but did not say anything. Also looking on the tape we figured out that B1 never had possession of the ball as it appeared to the T on the court. He blew the call and there was no question about that.

If this had happen to you, what would you do if you were the C? And what would you do if you were the T?

Peace

rut,
(slot)depending on time of game and situation of game would depend on me coming to my partner. if this were the first quarter, or a 20 pt blowout-no i would not come to my partner because this is not a game saving situation. if this were late in the 4th quarter in a tight game, i would definately come to my partner and try to get the play correct. this is just my thought on the process because overturning my partner on a judgement(control of ball) in the early stages of the game, when everyone bought the play, seems to me that it would do more harm than good.

(trail)i would change my call without question if the slot came to me to add info and took full resposibility for the play, at any point in the game. if he came to me without confidence and said "well, i think it may not have been control and da da da." i would say no thankyou we are sticking with what i got. but if he cmae to me and said "tony, im 100% sure he did not have possession" i would not think twice about it.

this is what i strive for

[JRutledge]

It is great to see the vast opinions. Not to say that what I think is right, but I probably would stick with that. I feel more confrontable with that decision. But who knows what I would do in a real situation. This was a summer league and I was watching other officials work. In the heat of a contested battle, I might not do any of this. I just found the situation interesting and wanted to see what the brass thought about it. That is why we should be here. To see what others think.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by crew
(trail)i would change my call without question if the slot came to me to add info and took full resposibility for the play, at any point in the game. if he came to me without confidence and said "well, i think it may not have been control and da da da." i would say no thankyou we are sticking with what i got. but if he cmae to me and said "tony, im 100% sure he did not have possession" i would not think twice about it.

Tony, I agree with this 100%. In pre-game, I say, "Don't come to me and tell me what you think. If you know I kicked one, come and tell me and I'll change it. But we're not going to have a NFL discussion out there." I think your mindset is exactly right, Tony.

Chuck

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JRutledge
No complaint here Mick, I completely agree with you. But my question is what would you do?

If you were the C and knew the call was messed up, would you say anything?

And if you were the T, would you allow the C to give you information to change the call?

And better yet, do you ever explain anything to the coaches?

No question the call was blown, just wanted to know if anyone would have done differently then the crew on the floor?

Peace

If I'm C, I'll generally take a few steps toward T and give him the look that means, "I have help, if you need it." The number of steps and the look depends on whose call it really was (the relative location of us to the division line and the player's involved), the time and score of the game (see Crew's post), how much the coach complains, etc. I might get all the way there and just give the information (as on an OOB call).

If I'm T, I look to the C to see if he's coming over and giving me the look, based on much of the same criteria as above. I might look before I make the call (ball gets batted into backcourt from C's area; as T I can't tell for sure who batted the ball. I'm looking for C to tell me if I need to make a call.)

[Ralph Stubenthal]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Ah, come on now, it has nothing to do with 3 man or 2 man.
We each have our own responsibilities, and the C does not
referee the mid court line. And BTW, what you have
noticed in the last couple of years is NOT the true trend.
There is a definite emphasis on officials getting together
and getting it right. But this play is not one where the
C should take the intitiative to come in and question
his partner. IMO.

I agree with you 100% on everything you just said Dan. If your partner is real new or real weak, it still is better to leave it alone unless he asks for help.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
I agree with you 100% on everything you just said Dan. If your partner is real new or real weak, it still is better to leave it alone unless he asks for help.

To the contrary, I think it's more important to go to a new or inexperienced official and simply ask him what he saw. This gives him an opportunity to think, "Wait a minute. I think I screwed this up." You don't have to show him up or even make it appear that he's wrong. However, I'm not going to ask him about a judgment call, only a possibly rules misinterpretaion.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

To the contrary, I think it's more important to go to a new or inexperienced official and simply ask him what he saw. This gives him an opportunity to think, "Wait a minute. I think I screwed this up." You don't have to show him up or even make it appear that he's wrong. However, I'm not going to ask him about a judgment call, only a possibly rules misinterpretaion.

OK Tony, this is and was not about a rule interpretation, it was about a judgement call. The official understood the rule, he just saw something different. So if he understands the rule, you have a difference in judgement. He did not see what the C saw.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

To the contrary, I think it's more important to go to a new or inexperienced official and simply ask him what he saw. This gives him an opportunity to think, "Wait a minute. I think I screwed this up." You don't have to show him up or even make it appear that he's wrong. However, I'm not going to ask him about a judgment call, only a possibly rules misinterpretaion.

Tony,
With a newer official I will be more pro-active with an emetic call.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick
Tony,
With a newer official I will be more pro-active with an emetic call.
mick
[/B]

Emetic call?Some of my calls have been described as "enemetic".Same thing,different end!

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Emetic call?Some of my calls have been described as "enemetic".Same thing,different end! [/B]

Yeah JR, with my calls, I've made the sheets brown too many times. But this year, I'll be perfect.
MHSAA rules meetings tonight (80 miles) or tomorrow (50 miles).
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick
Yeah JR, with my calls, I've made the sheets brown too many times. But this year, I'll be perfect.
MHSAA rules meetings tonight (80 miles) or tomorrow (50 miles).
mick [/B]

Take the 50 mile one.Go fishing to-night.To-morrow night,you can still make the meeting AND get some fishing in with the time you save.
PS-watch out for wimmin with worms!!(blame Mr. Jenkins for that)

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Take the 50 mile one.Go fishing to-night.To-morrow night,you can still make the meeting AND get some fishing in with the time you save.
PS-watch out for wimmin with worms!!(blame Mr. Jenkins for that) [/B]

JR,
Good plan.
Yeah, bob's was a gagger!
Talk about emeses.
mick

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
OK Tony, this is and was not about a rule interpretation, it was about a judgement call. The official understood the rule, he just saw something different. So if he understands the rule, you have a difference in judgement. He did not see what the C saw.

Was I replying to you? No.

Am I interested in your play? No.

I was replying to Ralph regarding his comments about a new official.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef


Was I replying to you? No.

Am I interested in your play? No.

I was replying to Ralph regarding his comments about a new official.

Then do not reply to any posts to a thread that I start. Then I will not respond to your posts at all. But then again, if you want to act like a child, be my guest.

Tony, leeeetttt iiiitttttt ggggoooooooo.

Peace