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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 21, 2009, 09:35am
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Originally Posted by tomegun View Post
If we did it on here - tried to hit some high points since we can't go over everything - would things get out of hand?
The Magic 8-Ball (tm) says, "Without a doubt."
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 21, 2009, 10:02am
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Originally Posted by tomegun View Post
It wasn't a short conversation because one official thought it is OK to grant a timeout when the ball is in the air, being passed between teammates. His rationale is there is team control during the pass. Even the former rules interpreter, who is currently on the NFHS rules committee, said this is OK by rule.

I will wait for the teammate to catch the pass; a player will clearly have control of the ball.
As Camron said, it's too bad none of them know about 5-8-3(a), or 5-8-3 SIT(F). Both the rule and case play clearly say the request should be granted only when in control by a player of his/her team.

Iirc, the Fed. also had this issue as one of their POE's last season in the pre-season meetings, newsletter and presentations. The play they brought up was where a team had control in the front court, there was a loose ball scramble, and one of the coaches started yelling for a TO during the scramble. The point was to tell officials that during this play they need to make sure a player has control before actually granting the TO. They were also telling the coaches that just because they request a TO, doesn't mean they're entitled to one, and the officials' first duty is to the play on the floor and not to listen to the coaches, so it is possible the officials might not even hear the request.

We also have a state rules interpreter that told us, in the above play, that the official, after noting the ball was not in control by a player at the time of the whistle, does not grant the TO, and the ball is then put in play by AP! This obviously goes contrary to a couple of different rules and case plays, including 5-8-3 SIT (F) directly.

But this goes to the consistency issue you ask about - the NFHS does not control how the rules and mechanics are enforced. That is done at the state and even local level, and there are obviously widely conflicting views as to how it "should be done". Therefore, it will be hard to ever come up with a true concensus on every issue unless there is one governing body that will be "in charge". In the meantime, association meetings are a good place to find out how everyone else in the area is making a particular call, so you don't stand out. Perhaps you can work in the background to get a particular mechanic or local interp changed, or even become a senior member, officer, or interpreter so you can tell others the proper way to do things. Otherwise, how do you handle a senior member or interpreter that says, "We're not going to do it that way, because it's not fair; we're going to do it this way instead"?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 21, 2009, 10:03am
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Originally Posted by tomegun View Post
You are right. So since our sessions have nothing to do with the association and are not mandatory in any way, that would probably fit your definition of going the extra mile.

Explain to me why you think consistency is a fallacy. Are you saying that because you think it will never happen or are you saying that because you don't think we can do anything to improve it. If you believe we can do SOMETHING to improve it, why not try? Any improvement will make the game better.
Unless you are all working for the same person or under the same umbrella all the time, people are going to bring their individual philosophies, experiences and point of views to the table. Honestly I do not really understand why people are so concerned with what every official does in games they do not work. You do not get that kind of consistency at the NCAA level, so why would those expect it at the high school level? My position is not about improvement; my comments are what should be the realistic expectations. What you are doing is great, but there are just too many people to expect everyone to get on board with any plan.

Peace
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 21, 2009, 10:03am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The Magic 8-Ball (tm) says, "Without a doubt."
Bob - is that the same Magic 8-Ball (tm) you use out on the court?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 21, 2009, 12:27pm
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Originally Posted by M&M Guy View Post
Bob - is that the same Magic 8-Ball (tm) you use out on the court?
No. This Magic 8-Ball (tm) is sometimes correct.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 21, 2009, 06:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy View Post

In the meantime, association meetings are a good place to find out how everyone else in the area is making a particular call, so you don't stand out. Perhaps you can work in the background to get a particular mechanic or local interp changed, or even become a senior member, officer, or interpreter so you can tell others the proper way to do things. Otherwise, how do you handle a senior member or interpreter that says, "We're not going to do it that way, because it's not fair; we're going to do it this way instead"?
Maybe I wasn't clear in my original question. In my case, I guess I would be considered one of those senior members even though I just got back into town. Also, the new interpreter is one of my friends and he goes to these sessions too. In other words, if I don't like something he is saying, he is my friend and I will let him know. But, he wants the association to improve and be consistent so that doesn't really happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Unless you are all working for the same person or under the same umbrella all the time, people are going to bring their individual philosophies, experiences and point of views to the table. Honestly I do not really understand why people are so concerned with what every official does in games they do not work. You do not get that kind of consistency at the NCAA level, so why would those expect it at the high school level? My position is not about improvement; my comments are what should be the realistic expectations. What you are doing is great, but there are just too many people to expect everyone to get on board with any plan.

Peace
Again, maybe I should be more clear. Consistency, on the high school level has more to do with consistency within an association. The problem is we have officials who talk a good game and supposedly know it all, but the only thing consistent about their game is they consistently get themselves into a bind. We are also trying to get officials we work with locally to understand application of the rule book instead of just knowing how to pass the test. I will be working with many of these officials so I absolutely care about how prepared they are.

I have had this discussion with Rut before; I think it is time we start talking less and being able to do more.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 21, 2009, 06:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun View Post
Again, maybe I should be more clear. Consistency, on the high school level has more to do with consistency within an association. The problem is we have officials who talk a good game and supposedly know it all, but the only thing consistent about their game is they consistently get themselves into a bind. We are also trying to get officials we work with locally to understand application of the rule book instead of just knowing how to pass the test. I will be working with many of these officials so I absolutely care about how prepared they are.

I have had this discussion with Rut before; I think it is time we start talking less and being able to do more.
Here is the thing, trying to get consistency in my area is even less likely when people in their area do not work with the people in their association. So if you have 3 different officials with 3 different associations how are they going to get consistency when they all might be coming to the table with different points of view? In other words we are not going to get there by talking before the season and coming to a consensus. We can come to some consensus in pre-game and following other mandates with the IHSA. But talking in meetings is only going to get the people in the room on the same page, not when the season starts unless you are fortunate to work with the same people.

Peace
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